To ask what should be being done about the economy and the country generally

[AlertCat]

I’m fairly Keynesian in my economics (I’m not an economist) but there are so many problems in society at the moment that I’m not sure even a massive programme of work like in the 1950s would really help.
There’s another thread where people are expressing unhappiness at the levels of tax they’re being asked to pay and it’s easy to find lots of threads about benefit claimants and immigration.

If we take as given that (a) our birthrate means we need immigration; (b) we have a benefits system that’s both overly punitive and (apparently) overly lenient if you say the right things (I’m not sure I personally believe the second part, but it’s an opinion I see a lot); (c) climate change means more and more people from the global south moving north; (d) the days of good state services, free at the point of use may be over-

what would you do differently to the government? Could we get back to the kind of services provision we had in the post-war consensus era (up until the Thatcher government)? Is that a pipe dream? Is it even desirable?

honestly, there are no obvious answers to anything.

But if I were in charge, I would tackle the following:

Media literacy - make it a core function of the curriciulum to educate about critical thinking. I was always taught, "read a story in one newspaper, then read that same story in three others - then you'll start to uncover the reality without the bias". In today's age of disinformation, I think this is a fucking CRUCIAL thing we need to do. The impact of the billionaire media barons is terrifying, not to mention the tech bros literally force feeding us false algorithms.

Immigration - Ultimately, I'm a lib dem voter at heart, although I did vote labour last election. We have to acknowledge that there are big concerns over the levels of immigration. Why can't we move to a points system whereby we encourage those who have the skills we need? Other countries do it effectively. I absolutely agree we need healthcare and highly skilled professionals - but the "unskilled" migrants, e.g. the deliveroo drivers, the uber drivers, is where the problems occur because they simply won't be 'putting back into the pot' - in fact, if they are using the NHS, using schools, even driving on the roads - that's not being a net contributor.

Education - ironically, I think the curriculum needs to be reformed (yet again!). It's not fit for purpose anymore - technology has changed so much that the kids don't have the skills for the new jobs that are emerging/will emerge. For instance, we know that the UK film industry contributes billions to the economy - yet the arts subjects have been decimated in the curriculum. More focus needs to be on tech subjects - coding, data analysis, interepretation, AI implementation - this all needs to come before university level.

Housing - I've said a million times. A huge issue is the focus on first-time housing, and not last-time housing. We need developers to build final homes - possibly bungalows, but ones that can allow people to remain living independently at home for much longer. Making hallways wide enough for wheelchairs/walkers, having downstairs bathrooms, removing the need for steps into the front doors - these are all minor things but we know that bed blocking is a huge issue in the NHS. Elderly people want to remain living in their homes and that's why they dont want to downsize or move - but the reality is that in many circumstances, their homes aren't appropriate for their changing needs. There should be incentives - perhaps if you're downsizing, you are exempt from stamp duty.

Taxation - we need to pay more tax. It's simple as that really. I genuinely don't know how you do it. We need to start explaining where the money is going and how it's being used.

Repurposing existing buildings is already happening where I live, and has been for years. Former bank with offices above, former hotel, former ambulance service HQ, 4 x former pubs, old police station, ex-county music school are all now homes. Work has started on 32 social housing properties on a site that used to be a primary school. There's another school that has been sold, and would be very suitable for housing, but it's a listed building so would have to be converted rather than demolished and rebuilt.

A large site here that used to be an industrial estate has planning permission for 400 properties, but the site has changed hands several times since the PP was granted (over 20 years ago!), and no fucker seems to want to start building the homes.

Maybe there should be a way of repossessing sites that have PP for housing that are just being sat on by developers, and councils could then have them for social housing.

We need developers to build final homes - possibly bungalows, but ones that can allow people to remain living independently at home for much longer. Making hallways wide enough for wheelchairs/walkers, having downstairs bathrooms, removing the need for steps into the front doors - these are all minor things but we know that bed blocking is a huge issue in the NHS.

That a good point both IL and parents looked at moving and found nothing worth the upheaval so stayed in three bed terrace houses till moving too much to considered.

Both houses had massive downside my parents village location - my IL the stairs which FIL has managed to fall down and there only being an upstairs bathroom.

@CharSiu I can't copy and paste your comment about too much Empire guilt but it's so true! My heritage is empire and I'm sick of bad faith actors letting it cloud things.

thread looks so interesting but I'm working so just gave the replies a glance and that really jumped out at me.

Yes, definitely. On the small estate where we live that was built in the 1970s, it's mostly OAPs living in unsuitable houses far too large for their needs, many of whom moved in during the 70s and 80s to bring up their families. Same story from all our neighbours really - they'd love to move but can't find anywhere suitable so they just stay where they are, installing chair lifts, letting the house and gardens get run down because they don't want the hassle of finding tradesmen, etc.

We need more bungalows and more "sheltered" retirement complexes like McCarthy & Stone but with better protections and more controls to avoid being ripped off. One of my MIL's neighbours moved from a bungalow to a sheltered flat in a private nearby complex and absolutely loves it - lifts to his upper floor flat, no garden nor maintenance to worry about, wide corridors, accessible bathroom, etc - he's not disabled and can manage in a "normal house" but he wanted to move and settle somewhere for the long term before he got too old and infirm to move! We need more of it.

I'm actively thinking of moving to something like a McCarthy & Stone - there's one near us and it's in a perfect location, I've been to the show flats and love the layout, etc. I fully know the downsides of management charges and potentially difficulty in selling, but it seems to work for what I'd want for the rest of my life, and I'm only 60. Just that although I am house proud and love my garden, I just can't see myself wanting the hassle of gardening, getting tradesmen, getting cleaners/gardeners etc in years to come, and I know that if I don't move at the "right" time when I'm still physically and mentally able, I'll never move, and I really dont' want to be living in a run down, unsuitable family house when I'm too old and incapable of looking after it properly and living it in properly, i.e. all rooms!

I posted this on a thread a few days ago also. Turning things around will take a long time but there are some immediate obvious steps that need to be taken and sadly no political party is even proposinng them.

1. Tax:

Reform the tax system so that taxes are levied on a household unit basis like in pretty much every other developed country, reduce the universal credit taper rate to 40%, and make child benefit and childcare funding universal again. These measures would increase economic growth, increase overall tax revenue and reduce skills shortages. Also of course the the withdrawal of the personal allowance resulting in marginal tax rates of over 100% in some cases needs to be scrapped.

I also think that (like in France and many other countries) there should be an additional tax-free allowance added for each child in a household unit. Again, this will increase economic participation, increase growth, lower the welfare bill, and decrease child poverty and reduce the gender paygap and poverty of women later in life so will more than pay for itself.

I would strengthen our rules around transfer pricing to ensure that it is more difficult for companies to transfer revenues from UK sales to other lower tax jurisdictions.

Implement ID cards to stamp out the black economy and tax evasion so that it is illegal for transactions to take place without a registered tax number being provided.

2. Health:

Replace the NHS with the kind of model used in France of Germany. For a very similar percentage of GDP these services have far superior outcomes and patient care. Subsume social care into the NHS service and raise income tax to fund this (the growth generated by 1) would be sufficient to do this in time.

3. Energy and utilities:

Reform the UK’s energy pricing model so that it is not based on the price of Gas. Uncapped energy costs for businesses that are not at all representative of production costs are driving inflation and reducing output across the economy. Reduce the focus on achieving net zero in a short timespan and redirect some of the money being spent on that to climate mitigation measures such as increased flood defences and investment into carbon capture technology. Implement proper strategies for food security, water security e.g. building more reservoirs. It’s utter negligence not to have done this.

4. Industrial strategy:

Implement a proper industrial strategy with Government-backed loans for startup businesses, tax breaks for small businesses, investment into key technologies and areas where the UK already has significant strengths e.g. pharmaceuticals, tech, the arts, defence. Create business clusters. Strength rules to prevent large businesses being able to take over challenger startups. Have a unified source of compliance/ export support for small businesses in different sectors that could manage this administration for them to make it more viable for them to export if lacking internal expertise or resources to navigate the system.

5. Trade:

Deal with the UK’s self-imposed trade barriers that are costing us 4% GDP per year and compounding. As a minimum, rejoin the single market and customs union as a matter of urgency.

6. Education:

Total reform of the dire UK education system. Half class sizes over time - education must be the number one focus of our public spending if this country is going to have any future.

Far fewer people should go to university, perhaps 15-20%. This should be funded by grants not loans as it benefits everyone.

Re-establish technical colleges with strong links to businesses and meaningful apprenticeships leading to qualifications and proper career routes similar to the system in Germany.

Give children more options to focus on their specific talents/ interests with schools specialising in different areas while still doing core subjects from age 15 onwards.

Implement a proper regulator to replace OFSTED which prosecutes Local Authorities itself for illegal behaviour rather than leaving it to individual parents to enforce the law through tribunals, and levies fines of sufficient magnitude on Local Authorities to disincentive illegal behaviour denying children access to education. Establish sufficient schools places for children with different needs so that all can learn properly.

Make adult learning and retraining available again and highly subsidised if not free.

7. Pensions:

Reform our pension system, which is simply unsustainable as it stands. Australia had similar problems and dealt with them a couple of decades ago. We should gradually move towards something more comparable to their system for state pensions which is fiscally sustainable.

We also need to address the public sector pensions which are held off balance sheet (!) and literally unpayable, with liabilities running into trillions of pounds with an ageing population and declining birth rates. Some realism about what is realistically payable will have to be accepted although many will find this unpalatable.

8. Housing:

I would make it much easier for people to purchase a plot of land and self-build, with Government security making it viable for mortgage lenders to lend on such projects and implement simple planning procedures for self-building and make VAT reclaimable on the building materials/ costs for the individual who is building a property to inhabit as their main residence. This would make housing cheaper because the profits of the big building companies would be removed (approximately 20% of the cost of new builds) and would hugely improve build quality.

All of this is possible and affordable in an economy if you put a rational tax system and industrial strategy in place that will create growth. Not a chance of that happening in the UK though.

I suppose my frustration is really that economic debate becomes entangled with polarised politics and therefore people adopt ever more extreme positions and become so entrenched because of their (understandable) anger at their own living standards declining that they are susceptible to politicians who are selling them fake solutions with slogans that don’t stand up to the slightest economic scrutiny. Turning the UK economy around requires an integrated programme of change with clear policy objectives like I’ve set out in my vision of how it could be achieved, with some measures that would cut unaffordable expenditure, some measures that would cost money but in vital areas where the return on that money would be many times what we spend, and most importantly measures that will increase economic growth.

Nobody minds if their tax goes up 3% if their real-terms income has gone up 10%. The first priority therefore has to be generating growth, creating the conditions where that will happen. All political parties in the UK claim this is what they want to do yet not one has even proposed the very obvious measures that would achieve this despite multiple economists having made it crystal clear to them the first steps that are required in order to do so.

Reeves said pre-election that growth was her main priority, yet she has taken measures instead that obviously would have the opposite effect. It’s very disappointing as I thought with her background she might do far better, but sadly yet again we seem to have a Government captured by ideology (just like the last lot) rather than having the integrity to make decisions based on economic reality and what will actually benefit the people who live in the UK.

Both Reeves and Hunt and others before them have been informed many, many times by independent economic studies that the the steps in point 1) are a prerequisite to any improvement in productivity or growth (and therefore improvement to living standards and funding for public services). HMRC data shows bunching below each threshold so it is clear that the cliff-edges are strangling growth and disincentivising growth at all levels of earnings and this is entirely within Government control to fix yet they do not do so.

I wish the population would question why this is the case. These people who claim to be acting in their interests are not doing so. They are trying to create electoral advantage and stay in power by polarising opinion and creating social division, which again undermines any opportunity for growth. A disintegrating society full of resentment and hate and no concept of collective good and social conscience is never going to result in any outcome other than decline and never has, anywhere in the world at any point in history.

The only way out of this situation would be for people to be objective, take a step back, realise that everyone has been screwed over, and instead of taking that (justified) anger out on each other, press the politicians to implement evidence-based policies that will actually improve the situation.

I become more pessimistic daily that the UK population will actually do so, unfortunately, and so the decline continues.

Ultimately we have to redirect spending from the old to the young and focus on education, trade, growth and infrastructure for this country to have any future.

The trouble with teaching people critical thinking is that it often becomes "teaching people to think the way I want them to think" rather than actually teach them to think critically.

@LakieLady

Repurposing existing buildings is already happening where I live, and has been for years.

Yes, here too, but it's glacially slow. So many buildings being left to rot for years/decades. Our council have to take a lot of the blame for it as they're reluctant to give change of use planning permission for our town centre as it's designated for retail and social space, so any applications for conversions of premises or potential flats above shops etc is initially automatically rejected meaning an lengthy and expensive appeal process that only big investors can afford when wanting to make large conversions. Someone owning a single small building doesn't have the funds to appeal and pay specialists etc. Then you have building regulations with often prevent flats above shops from being developed due to too narrow/steep staircases, too small rooms, lack of escape routes, etc., again prohibiting "ad hoc" conversions and requiring conversion of several adjoining premises to provide for complete redevelopment to build in better access arrangements etc.

We have an old Boots shop, three floors, in prime position on the main central shopping street that's been empty for nearly 30 years! (Well not entirely empty, it was found to be a cannabis farm for a couple of years!). Opposite that is a four story huge building that used to be a bank, likewise empty for years.

Unless the town/city is a university/tourist town, then redevelopment is very slow and takes decades due to lack of demand and high costs. It's only really viable for places like Uni cities where big investment/development firms can take an entire block and either demolish or redevelop to turn into modern student flats, or where high demand for tourism means places like flats above shops are viable for conversion to holiday lets or Air BNBs due to the high profitability of holiday lettings.

Back in the 1980's I used to do casual labour on local farms, and I could work while still claiming. We had a 'green book', the farmer would sign that and we'd hand it in. Later on our dole would be docked for that week we worked, while housing benefit remained unaffected.
Thatcher put a stop to it, local people were unable to do those jobs any more, and immigrants moved in to do fruit and vegetable picking and packing.
You're being played. We used to manage these systems without any resentment. Ask yourself what changed.
People need to lose the dog in the manger attitude towards benefit claimants and disabled people, and bring that type of system back. Or universal income. Let us train for available jobs and work from home, or do casual work, while still receiving financial support.

Nail on the head. Our young WORKERS are our future. We need to educate them, train them, nurture them, value them, get them into jobs, keep them in jobs, keep them in the country. If that means the old and rich have to pay more taxes, or get fewer freebie public services, then it needs to be done.

What about the old that are already living in poverty and can't afford to pay for services? What do you propose for them?

We need a system where there is a guarantee that someone working will never lose more than 50% of their wages, whether to taxes (inc NIC, student loans etc), or loss of benefits. If everyone who earns another £50 in whatever way, is guaranteed to keep at least £25 of that (taking into account loss of UC, loss of child benefit, all taxes, loss of free childcare, loss of free prescriptions - everything really), it would really encourage more people to work and work more. Whether you're a doctor earning £99,500 and are offered an extra shift for £1,000 or whether you're a part timer working in a shop offered an extra shift for £50, make it a cast iron guarantee that you'll keep 50% of it, whatever, and you'll see more people working and more workers willing to work more. There needs to be an outright ban on any marginal tax rate over 50% and any marginal loss of benefits over 50%.

Perhaps fewer people should go to university. If they could start working at 16 / 18, they'd generate income, pay tax, avoid student loan debt

In the past, many more people started at the bottom and worked their way up. Now, I see entry level positions requiring degrees and many graduates unemployed

They'll be protected by means tested benefits if they're already genuinely in poverty, i.e. pension credits, free prescriptions, free bus passes, rental support, etc etc. Just set the means testing at a sensible level to protect the genuine poor.

We can't keeping giving freebies to rich pensioners. A retired doctor on a £60k occupational pension and a £12.5k state pension really doesn't need a free bus pass, free prescriptions, winter fuel allowance, etc. Someone with a small property portfolio earning £40k in rental profits, plus an occupational pension of £60k, making total income of £100k doesn't even need state pension. Not to mention that they're only paying income tax on their pensions/income, whereas a worker earning the same in wages is also having to pay NIC, student loan repayments, workplace pensions, etc.

At least standardise rates so that everyone with an income of £50k pays the same taxes. It's insane that workers have more deductions in terms of tax, nic, student loan, workplace pensions, than a pensioner who only pays 20% basic rate tax on the same income level.

That's the inevitable consequence of the stupid political aim for 50% to go to University. 50% of jobs don't "need" a degree, so having so many going to Uni is utterly insane. The number of Uni places needs to be linked with a proper plan to match the number of jobs that genuinely need a university degree.

For everyone else, we need to massively improve colleges and a return of polytechnics, and also rebuild our once World leading adult education system which was dismantled when Polys were turned into Unis and colleges were turned into 16-18 year old centres.

And a lot of degrees aren't "job relevant" anyway so people going on to professional qualifications often have to do professional exams anyway and still have to work their way up for a few years, taking further exams every 6-12 months. When we did Uni open days, we went to an accounting degree subject talk and a few of the audience were aghast that the 3 year accounting degree didn't make the student an accountant and that they'd have to go on to get a training place in an accountancy practice and do 2/3/4 years of professional exams alongside working - basically no different to getting a training course straight after leaving school after A levels - yes some modules of the degree give an exemption for some professional exams, but it takes longer to do it via Uni, even with an accounting degree, than it would take jumping straight in after sixth form. As I say, some of the audience couldn't quite believe it and were openly asking why someone would go to Uni to do an accounting degree when they could get a job at 18 or do a different degree and transfer to accountancy later - the speakers struggled to give convincing answers!

Look at current UK Government spending. £314bn on welfare, 42% of which is the state pension, so that’s £132bn per year. £202bn on health 85% of which relates to the elderly so £172bn per year. Debt interest (that the generation in question ran up during the longest boom and period of peace in history by overspending on themselves) is now £105bn per year. That’s £409bn per year spent on this cohort. That doesn’t even include social care costs, btw, or public sector pensions. As well as Council tax, a further £87bn of Government funding goes to Local Councils and the majority of both of these is spent on social care for the elderly.

Meanwhile total education spending is only £94bn. Defence is £56bn. Science and technology is only £13bn. The whole justice department is £13bn and housing receives just £12bn.

It doesn’t take an economic genius to see where the problem lies and that the piranhas have and continue to bleed the country dry. There is no excuse for the current generation of retirees - as a cohort - sitting on more enormous wealth than any other generation in history (and having squandered far more than they could afford of the nation’s wealth on themselves during their working lives), and expecting to continue to impoverish current working families who have no hope in hell with the same levels of qualifications/ skills in the same careers of anything like the lifestyles that they have enjoyed.

Of course there are individuals within that generation who are poor, but it is that generation that needs to cough up to redistribute their wealth to pay the cost of that. To put it into figures, every Boomer on average, over their lifetime, will cost the state £200k more in services and pensions etc than they paid in tax. For comparison, each Millennial on average is forecast to pay £250-300k more in tax than they receive in services or benefits.

These demographic issues with a large cohort and an ageing population were entirely foreseeable and foreseen and it was their responsibility to put sustainable systems in place to fund this during their working lives. Instead they voted for lower taxes for themselves and left it to be our problem then demand everything is funded for them - retirements and healthcare services the like of which they neither funded for themselves or for their parents’ generation.

Meanwhile this older generation sit around making scathing comments about how lazy everyone else is, many of them while enjoying their early retirements. The fact is they have extracted far more wealth from society than they have contributed and a huge recalibration of the economy is required because a large part of the reason it is in its current state is due to their entitlement and complete refusal to admit this even when it has been indisputably proved by generational economic studies.

Potentially. But I think in the realm of disinformation, fake news and piss poor algorithms it’s an issue that can’t be ignored.

just look across the pond - it doesn’t feel like any journalists are pushing back on the outright lies and deceit. people genuinely believe what they are being told - even when the evidence to their very eyes says differently

Massive changes to pensions (state pension, public sector pensions AND tax benefits), some kind of sovereign wealth fund/VC for new businesses, rebalance of taxes from income to wealth. And a mass house building plan, along with apprenticeships to go with that - profit from the houses built should go straight into a SWF, and reinvested into more housing.

Then we also need to fund the NHS better (used to be the most efficient healthcare system, but now it's barely functioning), with social care reform too. Add a voluntary euthanasia option so we don't force people to continue on living when they have a poor quality of life and don't want to go on anymore.

Will cost a fortune, but then governments for the past 30 years have been extracting wealth out of the country, and now we're in a sorry state because of it.

@InPraiseOfIdleness

Meanwhile this older generation sit around making scathing comments about how lazy everyone else is, many of them while enjoying their early retirements. The fact is they have extracted far more wealth from society than they have contributed and a huge recalibration of the economy is required because a large part of the reason it is in its current state is due to their entitlement and complete refusal to admit this even when it has been indisputably proved by generational economic studies

Nail on the head.

What seems to be missing amongst the sqaubbling (and any Government’s policies or any UK political party’s manifesto for a very long time now) is any comprehension of how all the things I set out in my first post are interlinked.

You want more people to work? Well, they need an incentive to do so and if they’re losing well over 50% of their additional earnings if they are on universal credit, or if they are in the bracket having their child benefit withdrawn, or in the bracket where their personal allowance and childcare funding is withdrawn (for those people the marginal tax rate can go up to over 20,000%! So by earning £1 more they lose £20,000 of net income…) then obviously you need to remove these absurd tax policies and miraculously tax revenue will go up within a few months and growth will return.

Education must be completely overhauled. Without this, churning out a significant proportion of young adults with a reading age of 9 after 12 years of formal education, of course the economy is going to decline. One size fits all education does not work yet our idiotic Government is doubling down on this. Huge class sizes, Local Authorities ignoring the law, terrible curriculum with no differentiation, few meaningful apprenticeships or routes into careers for the non-academic, ridiculous costs for higher education, adult training/ retraining pretty much non-existent.

If you want funding for education and health then you need that growth. If you don’t fund education and health properly then you’ll have a large cohort of unemployed people and huge skills gaps that you have to plug with immigration.

This will then put further pressure on housing and services. If you instead provide decent education to people and good routes into careers without lumbering them with extreme levels of debt which further increase their marginal tax rates and crush aspiration, then you won’t need so much immigration.

Then people might be more likely to see incentive to work harder because they would have relevant skills to earn a decent living and be able to afford a house. There would therefore be a lower welfare bill, which would free up more money for services and investment in infrastructure.

If you provide favourable trading conditions and business support again there will be growth. Inflation will go down because GBP won’t continue to be devalued by an ever-growing trade deficit due to our need to import essentials like food and fuel, if small companies are supported to export more and given business support and start-up grants. Investment may return if we create favourable conditions for businesses to flourish. Again, lower welfare bill, more jobs, higher productivity. And more money for decent services for those that need it. If you have the immigration from EU countries then - as was the case for many years - the immigrants on average were net contributors to tax, more highly qualified than an average UK citizen, more likely to set up businesses and generate growth, and less likely to use public services or social housing. Instead, we drove all of those beneficial immigrants away and instead have to plug skills gaps with less highly skilled (on average) immigrants from elsewhere who are (on average) a net cost to taxpayers. Meanwhile we lose 4% of GDP every year (for context, this is more than the tax rises Reeves has implemented…).

If you remove the ridiculous means testing of childcare, child benefit etc more women will be in the workforce lowering poverty and reducing welfare dependency later in life and more people will work.

If you do the above people can afford to make savings for their own pension provision so that tax money can actually be focused on infrastructure and education and things that improve living standards for all. You could even introduce a new auto-enrollment alongside pensions to save for care costs because there would be growth and rising salaries enabling this.

As standards of living increase and aspirations aren’t crushed and people can see routes to a brighter future through their hard work health will also improve reducing the strain of preventable disease on the health service and allowing resources to be focused on unavoidable illnesses.

More money will be available for the infrastructure we need to protect ourselves from climate change and ensure food, fuel and water security. More money will also be available for welfare for the disabled, for defence, etc.

None of these are insoluble problems. Indeed, many other countries have systems that work far better in the various areas that we can simply emulate. It needs a co-ordinated strategy focusing on the long-term outcomes and genuine costs across departments rather than individual departments operating in silos trying to make spending cuts and by doing so creating larger long-term costs elsewhere. It needs long-term evidence-based policy making by people genuinely acting in the best interests of their citizens rather than trying to score points based on cheap and economically illiterate political ideology.

Therefore, I suppose, absolutely no chance of it happening because we have an economically illiterate electorate who are only focused on their own individual resentments.

I agree with you @InPraiseOfIdleness

In particular the point about education - if you want to go and study a degree, money is literally thrown at you to do so. OK, you have to pay it back, but mechanisms are in place to ensure that everyone who wants to do a degree can do so.

But what about those who want to study and learn how to do a trade? Other than an apprenticeship, there's no funding there to help those who aren't academic. What about funding to encourage people to become HGV drivers? We know that there is a huge shortfall of drivers - 200,000 more will be needed in the next five years, yet despite the impact on the entire country, there is nothing there to encourage that next generation as they finish school.

And you are absolutely right - if we can educate our kids to get a job (rather than pass fucking useless tests), then they'll be able to depend on themselves earlier, and for longer.

Completely agree about the lack of equal investment in non university roots - one of the things I hated about Corbyn’s policies (and the SNPs) - a massive bribe to the parents of the kids who can get onto a university course and some warm words for the rest.

I agree very much with adult education, polytechnic and more vocational training delivered apprentiship style.

I also think many a job asks for a degree that doesn't need a degree and they should stop.

But I am not sure about capping numbers studying to match the job market. It's got quite muddled these days, but degrees are academic qualifications and I don't really care if someone wants to do a degree in medieval history in the full knowledge it won't lead to a higher paying job than without it, as I think it's good to have an educated society overall, even if they are working in a coffee shop, as a cleaner etc. I just think the marketing and social view needs to be more honest as people are sold that it will increase earning and the debt is worth it.

@InPraiseOfIdleness

Education must be completely overhauled. Without this, churning out a significant proportion of young adults with a reading age of 9 after 12 years of formal education, of course the economy is going to decline. One size fits all education does not work yet our idiotic Government is doubling down on this. Huge class sizes, Local Authorities ignoring the law, terrible curriculum with no differentiation, few meaningful apprenticeships or routes into careers for the non-academic, ridiculous costs for higher education, adult training/ retraining pretty much non-existent.

And again, nail on the head. Our education system is woeful. Like the NHS it's no longer fit for purpose. We need to go back to the drawing board in so many ways to create health and education systems (and social care, infrastructure etc) that's actually fit for the coming century, not still rooted in the last century. (Though to be fair, our education system of the mid 20th Century was a hell of a lot more appropriate to the needs of the country in terms of work and life skills than it is today).