To say the current welfare system encourages this?

[Sendcrisis2025]

I know a family, mum, dad, 4 kids 18-24.

They live next door to me and we rent from the same HA so I know their rent.

Dad is an alcoholic and claims PIP at maximum. Mum claims carers for him. The 2 sons remaining at home both get full PIP for mental health.

They receive £2200 per month UC, on top of full PIP. (Carers allowance is deducted £ for £) but all the elements add up to £2200. I know all this as I'm mid terrace and apparantly they like to sit in the garden discussing the ins and outs of everything.

Out of the £2200 UC and £800 is PIP for just the dad that's £3000 a month. Rent is £615 a month.

They have no need to worry about changing the status quo.

I am the child of an alcoholic, the day my parent lost their job and realised they couldn't provide for us was the day they realised they had no choice but to seek help.

Are we, as a country, actively discouraging people from getting better? I know i certainly wouldn't be in a rush to get better.

I mean, support services for helping people with mental health issues or alcohol issues is woeful.

They're unlikely to be able to work, until they get that help. And maybe they won't bother trying to get help, buy PIP won't last forever as it gets reviewed anyway.

But what job do you think a mentally unwell alcoholic will be able to do?

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think the issue is more nuanced than you think.

Erm, PIP at maximum would be both maximum daily living amount and maximum mobility amount.

you can only get the maximum mobility amount if you cannot walk 20 metres and have medical evidence to back it up (amputation, MS, etc etc).

are you sure about that?

it’s possible he is an alcoholic but also disabled? Does happen.

Bloody hell, I barely know my neighbours surnames let alone the ins and outs of their finances.

Amazing how many people know acquaintances incomings on MN.

Personally, I would prefer to have my health, my freedom & be able to work

From my experience of travels around the world

Many other countries do not provide benefits

I agree that the support system is loaded way too late in the timeline

ie they probably can’t work now - but quite possibly they could have and their illness was avoidable

eg poor education, childhood trauma etc etc

and a life on benefits is never as good as a life where an avoidable illness was avoided.

but effective early intervention requires a seismic shift in society . So….

It’s almost an acceptance of universal basic income now isn’t it? Too hard to get people to work and many are just unemployable so give them enough to do nothing and keep them quiet.

Agree there is no incentive. Unfortunately working people can be only a little better off which is where the main problem is. Easier for everyone to import workers from abroad than get Brits back to work.

I often refer to a study that showed that people who suffer a trauma and are told they need to wait for counselling will not get better until they’ve had it. People who are not offered it just get better. Bit simplistic but yes. Too much incentive to stay unwell.

How do you know all this @Sendcrisis2025 ? I am guessing they boast about it to you?

Oops, sorry just read this bit.

I know all this as I'm mid terrace and apparantly they like to sit in the garden discussing the ins and outs of everything

Of course they do.

Oh goody. I was getting really fed up of the voter bashing threads, so it's great to see someone with initiative getting us back to the disabled bashing threads. Shame about the crappy bank holiday forecast - they won't be providing any garden updates on their financial circumstances for a bit.

🤔

Why exactly is any of this your concern?

I know all this as I'm mid terrace and apparantly they like to sit in the garden discussing the ins and outs of everything.

Gosh. They all sit in the garden discussing the minutae of their finances. How fortunate for you and now you can start a disability benefit thread on them.

Another one for the collection.

How long have you lived next door to them @Sendcrisis2025 ? You seem to know them pretty well.

Sure

I cannot think of a feasible way an alcoholic would receive enough points to get "full PIP" (whatever that is? Do you mean the enhanced rate for daily living and mobility?)

Regardless, the NMW is £1,831.52 per month. So, two full-time workers would be on £3,663 a month plus UC top-ups.

Given that they are much worse off than they would be working full-time, I fail to see why the benefits system has caused your neighbour to develop alcoholism.

How should the system be different?

They are having a financially comfortable life on benefits without doing a stroke of work. If this is benefit basing so be it. No wonder Reform won all those seats.

Beside the point but where the fuck do you live that rent on a house that fits four adults in it is 615 pounds?

That's not true. I get pip enhanced mobility because I have both hearing and sight impairments which make planning and following a familiar journey difficult. I've lost count of the amount of times I've flagged down a bus "not in service" because I can read the number / destination when it's 5m in front of me

I'm imagining you next to the garden fence with a calculator totting it all up.

We used to have neighbours that were really loudly spoken. Lovely people but honestly I used to know so much about their lives because like the OP's neighbours they would discuss things very loudly in their garden. Or they would have their back door open and even though they would be indoors I could still hear their conversation if I was in my garden.

"you can only get the maximum mobility amount if you cannot walk 20 metres and have medical evidence to back it up (amputation, MS, etc etc).
are you sure about that?"

You can also get it if you can't go out on your own.

I don’t think OP is saying the benefit system has caused the alcoholism, but rather than because of the system there is no incentive or force to either stop or work because you’re not panicked about money.

It's perfectly possible to get enhanced mobility not on the moving around descriptor but the other mobility descriptor where you are too anxious to leave the house or can't do a journey by yourself. Absolutely load claiming enhanced mobility this way rather than because they can't physically walk 20m.

Agree ! I overheard my neighbour in his garden the other day on the phone telling someone that he no longer has to give his dd so much money as she now gets enhanced PIP !