Do you think some people didn't know what level of government they were voting for?

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Yesterday, at a café, I overheard two elderly ladies saying that they voted for Reform in the county council elections as they wanted their heating allowance back and want the Labour government out in Parliament.

How bloody ignorant are these people? The county council has zero responsibility of your pensions and heating allowance. They deal with potholes and local education.

Probably have forgotten that the general election was 10 months ago.

Also, people seem very ignorant about the Constitutional Monarchy. Even on here, people think KC has far more power and can somehow control Home Office decisions, which isn't the case.

Well said. Nice to see a measured, intelligent post. They're like hen's teeth on here this morning

Again, we do. Do you remember every single lesson you had at school? Pull out it of your head years later and say "oh yep, brilliant, I remember that lesson on a wet Friday and know exactly what I need to know?" This is not about education it's about adults taking responsibility to learn for themselves about the power they wield when they vote.

The problem them is the stupid, complicated level of government. It’s not even remotely shocking that people don’t know which tier of LG does what. Why would people remember which tier has which responsibility? Why have tiered government at all? It’s wasteful and confusing.
I worked in local government in Scotland and we didn’t have that tiered local government.

This ⬆️.
Education isn't about giving you all the knowledge you need for life, it's about setting you up so that you can work it out for yourself in adult life.
The gov.uk website is excellent and explains all the workings of Parliament and the role of government. I wish people would take some responsibility,instead of the knee jerk "we didn't learn it in school".

Andrea Jenkyns was saying yesterday something about stopping illegal migration. I think they have six councillors in the bit she’s responsible for. Her actual remit will be pot holes, bin collections, bus services and dog shit.

Let's not pretend that this is a new phenomenon. In times of hardship people turn to more political extremes. Centrist parties are generally elected during times of peace and prosperity. Look at how communism and facism were flourishing across Europe a hundred years ago. Yes there are links to educational attainment and how people vote. Yes areas of deprivation with less academic attainment tend to move to political extremes first but people generally aren't stupid. They are desperate for change, to find a way out the situation they find or perceive themselves to be in. It's not just the British electorate either. More and more people in other European countries are voting towards political extremes as well.

And anyway surely it's better that Staffordshire county council is Reform and it gives labour a bit of a wake up call, rather than a landslide for Reform at a general election.

voting is a responsibility as well as a right, and it’s alarming that some people seem to be ignorant to this extent

As an aside, the one of the things I do remember from school is simultaneous
equations, and getting very excited when I had to use them at work once!

I wonder if many Reform councillors know what they have let themselves in for.

Some impressive trick to persuade these so called leftists that they love the EU. And they say Reform voters are gullible fools.

😂 rights have long since been decoupled from responsibilities. That's dinosaur talk

If only the 'old people' and the 'boomers' were as perfect as all the younger people on here. Oh if only.

I know, it's extraordinary! People should look up how it was conceived by Adenauer because he feared the left in West Germany. You have free movement of labour, you can undermine strikes cut the power of trade unions and keep wages low, enabling bigger profits.
The UK's entry to the EEC was blocked for many years because they thought that our Trade Union movement was too strong.
Why on earth anyone thinks that the EU is some sort of socialist paradise is beyond me. It's a capitalist dream.

Another one. Could you ve more patronising?

I work as a poll clerk and have done a few general and local elections and it is not people who never vote and have been whipped up by social media who turn out to vote, it's the exact opposite of that

I think many, many people voted Reform in the local elections over national issues.

I am not trying to be inflammatory here and am genuinely trying to understand a Reform voter.

People who do vote Labour and live in cities tend to be younger, working and have an education because they need it to get those jobs. They are not necessarily rich. They have value system based on Labour’s which is in essence a flow of wealth around society to give people a fair start.

Tories have traditionally wanted less state control less tax and the ability for individuals to retain their wealth and make their own way.

This model has come skewed as the richer have retained more and more of their wealth, moved it around the world and not circulated it in society in the same way via tax for governments to spend. NO ONE IMO needs more than 100 million to live a good life when others are going hungry. I get that industry has declined, housing is short. These ultra net worth individuals, who often hold huge influence have created an agenda where this is the fault of poor brown or white people from other countries rather than the lack of circulation of money and its retention in the top 1%. If this money circulated there would be investment for new housing and industry. The cogs would be oiled which always improves change.

My worry is Reform are just jumping on this band waggon of stopping boats, (which party isn’t trying to do this?), increase productivity and reduce taxes (again which party isn’t trying to do this?) … They’re just amplifying what’s currently going on.
The only real way that things will get better is there is no scenario where 1% of private individuals control so much wealth across the world and can choose how and where to spend it and democratically elected governments can’t because their coffers are drained. And on top of that they can create an agenda where many believe their poverty is not the fault of the rich but of other poor people who are struggling too.
In the short term you may disagree because you could say that social housing that your DC could receive has gone to an asylum seeker. And in the short term that is going to be difficult for your family and encourage xenophobia in the community - BUT really for long term change there needs to be a shake up in capitalism globally. The money in the world hasn’t disappeared - it’s just increasingly held by a smaller and smaller minority.

Labour voters I think hold on to the hope that they will start this redistribution of wealth from the mega rich and this needs to be a movement globally for it to be successful.

Thanks - that's actually really interesting. I suspect that voting is habitual.

Most behaviour can be explained by remembering to think about how stupid the average person is and then realising this means half the population is even more stupid than them.

The average reading and comprehension age in the UK is the same as a 9 year old child - then we ask that population to make impactful decisions... Most of the time it is like turkeys voting for Christmas.

And no, I am not a Tory or a Labour fan - frankly they're all as awful and useless as each other

It won't. Those Reform councillors will then claim it's the fault of central government and people need to elect a Reform government.

I think Reform are tapping into a demographic which feels as if change is important, and clarity of action needed - I'm not saying that Reform provides this, but it's a viewpoint.
I saw interviews with people who voted Reform - not all white and certainly not all elderly. They felt that Farage spoke clearly and directly and addressed their fears. Yes, migration is an issue for many of them, but that concern won't go away just by telling people it's not really a concern.

I think local election results shift national policy so it's fair to say that might have bee thier aim and o think it works.

I also think there is a lot of ignorance about the political structure in the country. I have a very active local councillor and our Facebook community group is full of people very cross with them about police matters, or the NHS etc ((they aren't even the ruling party) and demanding to know why they havebt done something outside thier powers/remit.

So, what's your solution? A dictatorship?

In a way they’re right- the rise of reform puts pressure on the government to reverse unpopular policies even if it’s just at council level. So maybe it’s not them who is stupid?

A lot of people are incredibly stupid, after brexit a colleague gleefully asked when I was being deported. Not only did I have to explain that EU nationals were not being deported, I also had to explain that Pakistan is not and has never been in the EU. She was very disappointed!

She has also previously thought the London mayor and prime minister were the same thing, so yeah, stupidity is rampant.

Extraordinary. It takes some doing to escape information like that