Do you think some people didn't know what level of government they were voting for?

[unn]

Yesterday, at a café, I overheard two elderly ladies saying that they voted for Reform in the county council elections as they wanted their heating allowance back and want the Labour government out in Parliament.

How bloody ignorant are these people? The county council has zero responsibility of your pensions and heating allowance. They deal with potholes and local education.

Probably have forgotten that the general election was 10 months ago.

Were they elderly as well

Yet the scale of the vote for Reform yesterday has struck home with a lot of Labour MPs. They know they are desperately unpopular, and will push the govt for policies that cause less anger.

Perhaps they will water down the changes to PIP as a result.

Yes, yesterday was about borough councils but it is a shot across the bows, a warning to the govt, and has influence.

Another ageist post

There wasn't an election in my area as we're not due one, and someone in our local Facebook group claimed that Labour had cancelled it in our area because they were scared, and tried to get the community to complain to the MP about the lack of elections.

So yeah, there are some right thickos about. And they're allowed to vote.

The first step is surely to signal their will? How else do you suggest the electorate does that? It's communication.

You're not wrong. The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter. So what do you propose instead?

To be fair, where I previously lived I was arguing for Remain ("boomer" who is fed up of the "it's all the boomers fault" like nobody of any other age voted Leave) because the majority of local Muslims were voting to keep the Poles out! Being opposed to immigartion is not just a "white thing", as the number of non-white members of Reform shows (and there's quite a few - they have been out on our streets canvassing for months in this area).

That said, whilst I agree that many people do not understand government in the UK, where decision making lies, etc, it is the usual misinformed "blame the voters" rhetoric. We teach very little about government, voting, or even rational and critical thinking in schools. If you do not teach young people the skills they need to make reasoned choices then you create adults who cannot do it. These skills do not spring fully fledged when you get the vote. Schools teach compliance, not questioning - and so do many parents. If you don't like how people are voting, then look to where the blame actually lies - with how we bring up and educate children.

You can also blame the political parties - they were also mainly campaigning on national issues, certainly at national level. Labour and Reform, for example, with their ads about the NHS - a matter not controlled by local government.

Politics has become about soundbites on media, rhetoric without any grounding facts. Political parties have deliberately dumbed down politics. I recall standing on doorsteps in my youth arguing for policies. Nowadays it's six words on Insta. Around here the only party on the streets - as I said, for months and months before the elections - was Reform. Their politics may not stack up but they put in the effort and they were seen and engaged with people. People who were terrified after losing winter fuel allowance, and faced with cuts to their disability benefits.

Repeatedly Labour voters, were telling Labour that they felt betrayed and scared. And even after a trashing in the polls, Keir takes this as a message to "go further, faster". Voters may not always understand, but they send clear messages, and "further, faster" was not the message. And actually the clearest message is not from those who vote. The majority can't be arsed to vote. That's the clearest message...

Nothing to do who they voted for but what they think local elections will achieve.

A lot of people are going to be sadly disappointed.

Many people are ignorant, obviously.

But winning local elections to shift national policy is normal minority-party politics.

I’m reminded of that bell curve meme. The idiot and the genius both saying: “I want Reform policies so I voted Reform”, and the midwit in the middle quibbling about the electoral system.

I suspect the vote for reform is more to do with high levels of migration and less PIP, as Reform aren't going to be looking to increase welfare spending are they? The vox pops aren't always honest - these people know they're held in high contempt by the BBC etc and so are not going to reveal thier true motives.

Of course not. Daft colleagues.

All the older (70+) people I know are left wing and voted against Brexit.

I really hope this will be the kick up the arse the government needs to take action before it's too late. Maybe the locals are dose of "oh fuck" required. There's time to do it, not much money but there is time.

Well apparently reform have promised to

lower council tax
fix pot holes
a review if council money and to be done within 6 month

looking forward to see all this actually happen…

Well this.

Council elections have very low turnout because most people are not that excited about what local government does. It’s either stuff that directly affects them daily but they just aren’t that interested in, like bins, or stuff that doesn’t affect them, maybe social care. Or they aren’t terribly sure what local government does. The decline of local newspapers will mean many people are less informed about their council than they used to be.

People are more aware of, as it’s regularly on the national news, the national government. Lots of people are very unhappy with how things are in the country. It’s a long time till the next general election, but local elections are a good way of expressing dissatisfaction with the government and even main opposition parties. It’s pretty clear from KS comments after the results came in, and KB’s, that they have got this message loud and clear. So people who voted to express dissatisfaction with the government have been very effective.

All I get from your post OP, and others like yours. is that you have a complete lack of intellectual curiosity about people who behave or think differently from you. For your own emotional or psychological reasons you prefer to look down on them as ‘thick’.

I can’t respect that.

I think part of the problem with Reform votes - and this applies to Brexit too - was that a lot of people who wouldn't normally vote and have no interest in politics were whipped up into voting by social media propaganda.

If you have very little understanding of how politics works, you can be manipulated into thinking you're voting for something you're not.

Was Tony Benn and Corbyn not left wing then? They were euro skeptics

The level of ignorance around local government is shocking.

I work for a local authority - a County Council so we are a tiered authority. I'm also a parish councillor for the village where I live. People think that the parish council have a say in planning decisions. They think that the District Council should "do something about the roads", the only thing that people seem sure about is that the District Council is responsible for bin collections, and that's only because the name of the District Council is printed all over the bins.

I'm looking forward to the Local Government Reform when we'll get rid of tiered LAs.

I do think the basics of local government should be taught in schools. I also think that voting should be mandatory but I know that's an unpopular opinion!

Just stop with the "Boomers" stereotype.
You do know that not everyone in that demographic voted for Brexit? Or maybe you don't.

How about information pages on the websites? I strongly believe these structures and areas of responsibility are kept as deliberately opaque and mysterious as possible to discourage participation. So you can't then get upset at outcomes as a result of people having no idea what they're doing

We have three levels of council (parish, district and county) plus a mayor. There are frequent Facebook posts whinging about things but blaming them on the wrong council. Things like why doesn't the district council sort out the potholes or why had the county council decided we should have so many bins.

I think democracy would be improved with fewer levels of council.

Exactly this. Teach this stuff, albeit on a basic level, at school!

Very few people will need to know about simultaneous equations and everyone will need to know about politics and interest rates etc.

They actively campaigned against the EEC/EU. It's a capitalist endeavour. Thatcher loved it, it was the Maastricht terms she didn't like.
Freedom of movement and cheap workers to keep wages low and weaken the unions?
That's what the Conservatives wanted.

I started a thread a while back about if there should be some way of testing people's understanding of the process before getting a voting license. I was mostly shouted down by those who rather proved my point who couldn't seem to grasp that I wasn't asking for a test to prove people understand X party are right / racist/ bastards / toffs whatever but simply that they understand the system.

I think local election votes have more recently been used to send a message of future general election voting intention.

It's pretty certain that whoever holds power at local level are going to turn the street lights on and empty your bins every week etc.

I think also, the problem with a referendum is that it's just binary. In/out just polarised everyone, and nuances were abandoned.