Surprised with the quality of some council houses

[LydieL]

Hi all, so I recently moved to a town in the north west, very low income area, the town is as you’d expect a sea of terrace houses that open to the street with concrete yards, some of the nicer parts have gardens but for the most part that’s not the case. There are also some newer estates.

Anyway I work for a charity, we support families where a parent or sibling has passed away. As part of my job I’ve seen a lot of council houses, in this area it’s mostly the terraces which are small or post war builds which are bigger but these tend to be “rougher” areas to live.

Lately I’ve been working with a family, mums been offered a council house and today I went with her to just go over a list of what she needs to do to get out of temporary accommodation asap and into it. I’ll be honest I’m a little stunned at the quality, it’s a 3 bed terrace, small front garden, mid size back garden (more than most around here), large kitchen, bay window. Council have fitted a new kitchen and bathroom and re-plastered the whole house.

It’s also in a “nicer” area. For the amount this place would sell for, you could probably buy 2 cheaper 3 bed terraces and considering the shortage of council housing stock I’m surprised that hasn’t happened! She will be paying about a little Over half what it would go for on the rental market.

Now I know this is the exception rather than the norm but AIBU to be surprised councils are holding onto higher value properties like this rather than selling them and either getting 2 houses (so 2 families can be housed) or putting the profit into the local area?

I am aware this is far from the norm but after talking to colleagues the council seems to have several properties in this little area, this mum has also got very lucky with her housing situation as she’s only been in temporary accommodation for a couple of months.

It won’t happen, I was making the point that it’s not a race to the bottom and the fact that social landlords are generally better (and yes, they have their problems) than private landlord doesn’t mean we shouldn’t aspire for everyone to have the same standard

As you said, that won’t happen. Until there is some possibility of action rather than a mere ‘aspiration’ merely jumping down the throats and piling on the working poor who do not have any good choices will not help. It creates more resentment, not less, and encourages the feeling of injustice and drives people into lawlessness.

Why is there so much concern to protect the feelings of certain groups, called ‘the most vulnerable’ over others? I can assure you social housing tenants right now are not more vulnerable than private rental tenants not have they been for some time. Still we get gaslighting and manipulation from those with political agendas, muttering ‘comparison is the third of joy’ and other such rot.

Non-comparison is the thief of justice, and without some basic forms of fairness and justice a society and social links will not survive.

@WaryCrow and actually 'many people who are working hard have no choice but to live in these godawful private HA rentals - many damp, with insects or mice, barely habitable, as long as the landlord can slap a coat of paint anything goes.'

Many working hard SH tenants also don't have the right to buy them up after having paid more than the cost of a home, to suffer for decades.
The 'right to buy' is just a right to buy into shared ownership rabbit hutches a long way away, if you ditch any family members who could now be forced into private rental.
We're systematically being forced out by rents raised to cover decades of neglect that they are now being forced to address some of.

(ie new windows cause government says, and a subsequent rent and 'service' charge hike, but going straight into walls infested with dry rot, damp, and using scaff boards to fit them for 'contractor safety' because our rotten floors which aren't being replaced, have rotted away from the walls!)

I grant you we are effectively given a 20% discount on rental costs of private neighboring properties, but the dreadful and often dangerous bodging and slapping paint over rot, done by unqualified sub contractors, is just the same, and they are allowed to charge 80% of achievable rents for quality properties, on our slummy ones.

Dragging up all poor housing standards for all, is desperately needed and the current government is trying to raise standards, starting with bad SH and rogue landlords of all kinds, even though results will be imperceptible for many of us. They are going after SH landlords 1st, because they are the biggest group owners of poorly maintained bad quality housing, as well as good housing stock.

Currently some private landlords look at the standards allowed in SH, to justify poor quality in their properties. They are next in line.

When people just accept the idea that all those on lower incomes should be punished by slum living standards, until or unless they can manage to make more money, this is what you get.

What quality those of us seriously lucking out are forced to live in, isn't a good reason to resent attempts to create decent quality housing for all. It really isn't.

I don’t think anyone is badging social housing tenants as vulnerable for their housing status, they may be for other reasons of course.

but this has not changed for 20 years. It’s not a new situation people should feel resentment for.
The housing shortage has squeezed the private rented market and meant that social housing hasn’t been build to the level required. This all started with thatcher- yes, selling off public sector housing. That housing was never replenished with new units.

There is no feeling to protect the feelings of social housing tenants over others. No house builder designing social rent housing is laughing away thinking ha ha lets screw the poor in their shit private rents. They’re trying to do the best they can, with the abilities they have, to add value.

if people feel this is injustice it’s the same as anything else- it’s based at the wrong person. As with race wars, we are being pushed to implode against each other whilst the elite laugh and cream the money off.

I am pretty sure this is a baiting OP 😁, but in case not, @LydieL (lie di?! Really?!) your tone is your tone, it’s not wrong, it’s you. You don’t understand your wider job purpose and context so it really isn’t the right role for you. You are doing all the people you work with a disservice. All of them, and it’s a tough area to be in. You are probably young enough to find the work groove which works for you, social housing really isn’t it!

YABU. Your reasoning makes no sense OP. The problem is shit quality private rentals. Why house people (some of whom are disabled) in housing that will become money pits due to issues and face litigation due to related health issues? No logic in that.

We are applying for a council house due to son's disabilities and not be able to adapt private rentals to our needs (or afford one since partner gave up work to be a carer). Its a bit upsetting people think we should live in a shit pit with stolen cars on fire outside because my son is severely disabled. We both had professional jobs before him and aren't anti social alcoholics.

My mums ex council house is pretty small, but desirable in terms of garden space, being adaptable and near amenities, more so than tiny new builds. It was small by 80s standards, but pretty decent now. That should tell you everything. The problem is small proportions of new builds and private rentals getting split into smaller units or not maintained. Oh and a general reluctance to build new towns and shoehorn as many new properties into spaces in existing overcrowded towns. We build lots of two bed flats in my town, which a mixed sex family of four can't live in after a certain age. No storage, loft, private outdoor space, internal bathrooms with no ventilation. Not good for families.

@ELLEHERD where I was working people were being offer swaps to homes in spaces with nicer and friendlier communities in other nearby parts of the same lovely inner London Borough.

I get the points you are making, but they are not relevant to what I said which was about council tenants as neighbours of £2million privately owned homes.

In a perfect world there wouldn't be such disparity, but there is, and it adds fuel to the anti-benefits sentiment.

As is the case with our dialogue here...

People seem to be minsunderstanding the OP I think.

It's not that she begrudges this service user a nice home. It's that the nice home is so valuable that by selling it, the council could aquire two ordinary homes for the price. Thereby housing two families instead of one - seeing as we are in a housing crisis with thousands of families needing homes.

Well perhaps now that numerous posters have explained that it doesn't work like that, she'll revise her point of view.

And you're overlooking all the other carefully crafted resentment points about her clients circumstances and situation which have no impact on the management of council managed housing stock.

Housing is a mess across sectors...new flats getting built near me but they are small, no garden, little storage, bathrooms without a window ....not great...this is the lot for anyone whether they rent/but it privately or get one allocated through their council....it is bad on all fronts.

another poster said the same a few posts up.

The properties built decades ago were far superion but those days are gone....issue is the councils should never have sold off their stock as now they are depleted massively...

@sunights I'm speaking as a SH tenant in a place where 2 million barely passes the salt test. My nice neighbors opposite paid 8 million.

We benefit from them being our neighbors kicking our HA landlords to not help run the neighborhood down, and allow too much ASB from the anti social tenants they also choose to house here. And in having lovely parks to picnic in as even if they're in the overpriced cafe, our young still play together, and we turn out together to litter pick and organize community events, and food banks.
Some benefit from access to the 'lovely' local school. (though many HA tenants oddly find themselves allocated undesirable places the other side of the borough.)
Some benefit from paid work from them, many from quality 'cast off's.'

They benefit from many of us normal HA tenants when they're desperate over water leaks, book day costumes, home education issues, broken down vehicles, missing cats, being doorstep scammed, and when they are in difficulties, especially when disaster strikes, as we are mainly practical, skilled and innovative, and decent neighbors, despite the conditions we live in, and the luxury they do.
Some benefit from paying us to work for them, many just get helped out for free.

We may just have to agree to disagree on our opinions of lower income council/HA tenants being allowed to 'mix closely' with those in affluent areas.

You need to get a new job. You should not be supporting vulnerable people with this disgusting attitude.

No one has misunderstood. The Op has made her judgy comments about this lady’s situation very clear.

It’s not disgusting, it’s realistic.

No, it's a disgusting attitude in the job she is being paid to do.

She is falsely taking up the place of someone with compassion, decency and a moral compass.
Her colleagues would be disgusted and she would rightly face disciplinary action if she's identified.

There are plenty of other jobs and roles for people with those sorts of attitudes, not in the third sector, where it doesn't matter, or is even an asset.

The build quality of council houses, especially the older ones is often very good. Council estates are very different nowadays to the one I grew up on. They used to have a mix of skilled and unskilled workers. When right to buy was introduced the houses on the better estates were snapped up. This has led to concentrations of "problem families and behaviours" on some council estates.
I live in an ex council estate by the coast, the average house price is £300k for a solid house with decent sized rooms and gardens, the build quality of the houses is far superior to a nearby new private development.
You have an awful attitude to council tenants though.

Social housing stock really varies. Some is a bit shit, some is great.

I think the problem is that we have a society now where it's almost aspirational to be in social housing which is only afforded to the few.

Not all of whom seem to objectively be deserving or appreciative of it.

But it is a bizarre state of affairs where a lot of people including me, are often envious of someone being in social housing.

I don’t really understand the jealousy bit- I do get that it’s hard to be in substandard insecure expensive private renting but doesn’t that mean you’re just jealous of everyone not in that situation? Homeowners, social housing renters, inheriters, those who married money….. why just pick out social Housing renters to be jealous of?

Well aren't you a peach 😐

Because it's subsidised so much, much cheaper. Rents are controlled and often paid for fully or partially by benefits.

They're not subject to mortgage or insane fluctuations in rents due to inflation or other economic forces. Mortgage payers have to pay the rises. Private renters are in the same position. There are no limits to rent rises for private landlords and yes, renters can challenge them but with the risk that the landlord will be found at tribunal to be asking a fair rent or the landlord just can;t be arsed so decides to sell up.

So long as they abide by the tenancy contract, social housing tenants are not at risk of being evicted whereas private renters are constantly worried about that because even with no fault evictions, if he landlord wants to sell up - the renter is out.

If the roof caves in, that's not the responsibility of the social housing tenant. They don't have to fix it and will be accommodated. They don't have to pay for it as mortgage owners do, often getting into debt. And they don't have to worry as private renters do, that the landlord is legally obligated to sort it out but could very easily do that and sell up and evict the tenant because they don;t want the costs of being a landlord anymore.

It's basically housing security for life. One of the reasons there is a housing crisis for families in the UK is the number of people in multiple bedroom homes because they got social housing based on their needs when their kids were little and now they're adults and all left home or some may still be at home and the small contriubution from bedroom tax doesn;t make a difference to the small amount of social housing stock.

With social housing you can make adjustments to the home without worrying about a landlord. And have pets etc. Which are usually not available to private renters.

I don;t get why most people wouldn't be jealous to be honest. I guess in terms of passing on inheritance maybe, but there is social housing where it;'s passed on so..

I think what you’re describing is how they should all be!

so everyone should be jealous of social renters then?

I mean, Im not. I got to chose my house, the size, the location, and I can move when I want. Yes I have to pay for it and pay mortgage interest but that’s just life. I would rather be here than in social hog, for sure

I don,t think i said everyone would be jealous did I?

I said it was understandable if some people are. And gave several reasons why, after you said you 'didn;t get the jealousy bit"

Because you're in a very different financial position to most of the population where you don't have to worry about really anything to do with housing so of course, you wouldnt be jealous of anyone who has those worries or understand why people in more precarious circumstances would be.

If we all like you, could chose our ideal houses, their size, location and could just move if we didnlt like it...of course, no-one would be envious.

I'm not sure if you're goady or out of touch but...here we are.

You said people are jealous of social
housing because it is not subject to “mortgage or insane fluctuation in rents due to inflation or other economic forces”

therefore those who are at a disadvantage

as for being goady… I have never met anyone who states they are jealous of social renters. As I said in an earlier post, it’s generally thought of as quite a bad place to be and something people want to get away from.

out of touch… well as you can tell by my posts, I know a lot about social hosing, so no.

Are you on glue?

Ofc tenants pay inflationary rent increases, and they pay rent until the day they die, allow access all the time for this and that, don’t get to choose the workmen or upgrades, and have no house to leave their DC. What’s enviable, exactly?