To ask what punishment the guys who cut down sycamore gap tree deserve?

[JorgyPorgy]

I hope those sick thickoes get a jail term but also hefty fine and lengthy community service , planting hundreds of trees . Punishment to fit the crime.
I think they’ve angered & upset so many people globally that they will have targets on their backs now.
That beautiful tree was 300 y o & would have lived hundreds more. Lots of new samplings can’t replace the carbon sink of a mature tree nor give out the oxygen it did, nor support the biodiversity it did. It’s so sad.

I don’t know, but I think the attempt to preserve the stump is misdirected. The sycamore was iconic because of its position framed by the valley, with a perfect gentle sway in its shape. It wasn’t a rare variety or an old tree. The remaining stump needs to be ground and a new tree planted. Sycamore grow really quickly. You can buy a large one very affordable and it will be established within a decade.

It might not have been truly ancient, but it was considerably older than any person alive now.

Some may say that it's pathetic sentimentality, but planting that tree was the treasured legacy of somebody who has long since passed. It should have lasted for many, many more generations, and not owned by just one - but it's now been pointlessly destroyed by some vindictive mindless idiotic specimens of this generation.

I agree - it was older than a person. I’d guess c.150 years old. And an important feature of the landscape. My point was that the fastest way to restore that is to grind the stump and replace it with another tree. You can buy large trees and sycamore grow fast. You’d begin to gain the same feel within a decade. That’s a far better tribute to whoever planted it than a stump with a few twigs on it.

Clearly justice requires a suitably tough sentence. I think the outcry reflects a longstanding cultural inheritance in England of caring for trees. Did you know that England is home to more ancient trees than the whole of the rest of Europe combined (especially oak and yew)? A healthy sycamore of c.150 years could easily have seen out another 150.

Information here Sycamore (Acer pseudoplatanus) - Woodland Trust and here Sycamore Gap Tree Felling Anniversary - Woodland Trust about why ancient trees are irreplaceable.

@Genevieva it was planted in the 1800s by the landowner at the time, according to records the National Trust found.

Originally thought to be 300 years old, it’s between 120 and 200 years old (estimates vary).

The same punishment as anyone might get for chopping down a tree that isn’t theirs. No room for sentimentality or favourites in the law.

It's a bit different than chopping diwn a fast growing conifer Leylandi

So if I went with a bulldozer and destroyed Stonehenge or Skara Brae, it would be no worse than if I'd deliberately bashed in the wall around the front garden of somebody's new-build house?

Or even if I went to the Louvre and either tore down and trashed the brass sign from the gift shop or destroyed the Mona Lisa - both just wall-hangings of equal seriousness?

This is not about favouritism or sentimentality.

There a aggravating factors in sentencing and the value the tree had for the society will be taken into consideration.

If they are found guilty, of course.

I wonder how much a chinook helicopter costs to run? 🤔
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Guilty. Awaiting sentence.

It's a different law to domestic damage - it's cultural vandalism. Relating to the
the illegal damage or destruction of cultural heritage, including artifacts, monuments, and sites, that are considered valuable for their historical, cultural, or artistic significance. They are irreplaceable.

Guilty ( as everyone knew !)

Hope the judge throws the book at them !

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly38wr66dro

And they don't get mitigating circumstances for not pleading guilty. I think life might have turned out differently for someone who said it was a stupid, thoughtless thing to do and they started to make reparations while on bail. But they lied and doubled down... so if custody beckons, so be it.

Yeap, trying to throw each other under the bus and coming out with ludicrous stories about someone else using their car/ phone etc - they’ve made a bad situation worse. And financially more costly with court proceedings. Idiots.

They've both been remanded now so I'd guess (ad a Layman) that some sort of custodial sentence is on the cards

I read that they are tree surgeons which to me makes them even worse. They knew exactly what they were doing, they must understand the importance of tress and the significance of this particular one. Throwing each other under the bus demostrates how pathetic they are.
Personally I think a short prison sentence followed by community service and tagging would put across to them what society thinks of them. Anything less than a prison sentence will have them thinking that they've got off.

The fact they’ve been remanded in custody for their own protection shows the strength of feeling their actions have caused. I would think it’s inevitable they’ll get custodial sentences tbh

@Azureshores

Put it into perspective. Would you really want to live in a society where people are whipped in public/starved/tortured for cutting down a tree?

I'm afraid that there are plenty of people - including a large proportion of subscribers to MN - who absolutely want to live in a society like that. They're not sure that it'll have any deterrent effect - at no point in history has that worked - but the advocates of torture-as-punishment are pretty sure that they'll feel better about things if they get to see violent revenge paid out for the entertainment of the general public.

"...I'll pull the handle myself, no bother. Won't be doing it again, will they?"

I think a year in jail (they’ll probably be out in 6 months), an extremely large fine (equiv. to several months of their salary) and very significant community service.

Can anyone even come up with a theory on WHY they did it? Are there people who go around thinking TREES, THOSE FUCKING BASTARDS, I HATE THEM, THEY ALL NEED TO DIE

???

Just don't get it.

I think they just have miniscule troll brains that think “Let’s have fun and get attention by pissing people off”, you know, like the boys in your class used to do when you were 10.

There is at least one thread every two or three days where a poster wants a tree gone.

Lots of people hate trees. And they are unashamedly vocal about it.

Tbf that is usually from their neighbour's garden and not a tree in a beauty spot.

I really like waterfalls, but I wouldn't want one in my neighbour's garden. I like giraffes as well, but again I would ask a neighbour to get rid if they had one in their garden.

Im struggling with this one & am very conflicted..... I get that this tree was a national landmark & loved by many across the world. I also don't understand why someone would cut the tree down.

However, what I'm conflicted about is how, at the cost to the tax payer was there a 10 day Crown Court case when some other serious crimes don't get this time in court, or any time in court for that matter.

In addition, & forgive me for saying but if these two idiots (because let's face it, that's what they are).....get a jail sentence that is longer than someone would get for let's say raping someone, or abuse against children, then in my opinion, there is something fundamentally wrong with our justice system.

Putting them in prison makes no sense, they aren't a danger. They are "idiots" who should be made to publicly apologise, and then made to make some sort of amends starting with fixing the wall they damaged & planting a significant number of trees.