To think people judge others who earn NMW

[Ralliesz]

Ok so I’m curious to know if you think people in general tend to look down on low income earners or those claiming benefits? A bit of an odd question I know but I got to thinking recently as I realised that I’ve witnessed eg heard people discuss this topic and it made me a little mad as the general consensus seemed to be that people are on low incomes are simply not trying hard enough to better themselves or because they can’t be bothered to work in a “real” job and would rather claim benefits. What are your thoughts?

For what it’s worth both me and my husband work and receive UC as our son gets DLA for his disability. My husband works full time doing a manual job on minimum wage. He used to be on more than NMW due to regular bonuses but his company sold out to the Americans and since they took over they have removed bonuses and also took him off shift work so he is down an extra £50 a month.

I have always worked on NMW or just above. I currently earn £5 an hour over minimum wage but I cannot manage to work full time right now so my pay is not high. Our youngest child is autistic and needs one of us at home regularly after school. That said i only got in from work last night at 7pm which happens occasionally but thankfully our adult son still lives with us and is around of an evening to sort our son out when he gets in from school.

Anyway I’m rambling, back on topic. So like I said my husband works full time and he works very hard. He has never really earned that much more than NMW despite trying eg offering to work as a team leader to gain new skills and experience and doing various training courses, but, and he has said this himself, he has a limit to what he feels he can achieve. This stems from what he believes to be undiagnosed autism and other undiagnosed conditions eg adhd and dyslexia. Now don’t get me wrong he doesn’t use these as excuses and he works really hard in his job and everyone loves him as he’s an amazing person and a grafter but he feels he has gone almost as far as he can go job/earnings wise.

As for me, I’m diagnosed autistic/adhd and I burn out really easily despite having strategies in place and trying to be as organised as i possibly can. I know almost everyone would happily not work in their current job if they didn’t have to but for me it’s more than that. I actually enjoy parts of my job but working in general dealing with people when I have anxiety and social communication difficulties absolutely drains me and even when I’m home I find it hard to switch off as I’m constantly thinking I’ve forgotten to do something or I’m doubting myself thinking I’ve messed up my work. So for me despite earning more than NMW as an hourly wage my pay still isn’t amazing as I can only manage to work 3 days a week.

I have experienced clear judgement about this from people and also about my husband being on NMW. We both work very hard probably harder than most “non autisic/adhd” people do as we (me mostly) have to focus ten times as hard just to get things right and not screw up. Plus then factor in kids and day to day stuff well it’s hard work, which I’m sure a lot of you can relate to. Anyway sorry for rambling, I guess I’m just curious to know how people feel about others who work “normal” jobs that don’t necessarily look amazing on the outside that don’t earn a lot but whom work their assess off regardless?

Some people work, others don’t. Of those who don’t work some claim benefits others don’t need to. Some people have caring responsibilities, others don’t. Some people live in places where there are, in general, higher incomes and more jobs, others don’t. If you are doing ok and pretty happy with your work and financial circumstances but keep coming across people who make you feel judged I would simply avoid those people. Or at least avoid telling them personal stuff.

Most people I know we have pretty good but ordinary jobs. And NMW is no longer that low compared to other jobs.

Personally I think I have a slight tendency to judge rich people and assume they aren’t particularly nice or that they come from very privileged backgrounds. I do remind myself not to judge though!

Minimum wage used to be pittance. I remember 15 years ago being really happy getting a job that paid £5 an hour as that was more than minimum wage.
people still associate it with being really low and for jobs at the bottom of the rung but it’s not really anymore.

The reality is that those on lower wages need the UC top up. As UC is lumped together there is a stigma compared to when you could claim working tax credits. It’s essentially the same but a lack of understanding means people judge.

Yes, I know what you mean and you do see it on here, although those people never seem to have an issue with using and enjoying the services that are provided by low waged workers whilst simultaneously slagging them off for being low waged.

It seems to escape them that if there are no low waged workers then they'll either have to pay more for the services they need and want, or they won't exist if everyone goes and gets a 'better job' and they'll have to do without.

Historically I probably did judge, not now though. I think inflation has over taken wages, employers are less likely to offer great salaries and many more jobs now are nmw.

My sister works for NMW in care and is the hardest worker I know. I used to manage a warehouse and the people slinging boxes around all day had a better work ethic than many office workers I’ve met since. I’m grateful that we have people willing to do the hard tasks that make the world go round, for low pay and think it’s the system that’s the problem, not the people working the jobs. IMO people working full time in useful jobs that society needs, shouldn’t be worried about basic bills and needing to claim UC top ups.

Our country wouldn't survive without people doing these jobs. It's not their fault they're not paid more for the work. What an odd thing to judge people on.

I would much rather people work a minimum wage job and get top ups from the 'government' than opt out of working. Some NMW jobs are really hard work, others aren't - same as high paying jobs. Renumeration isn't really a reliable way to qualify the importance or difficulty of paid work.

They are jobs that need filling. I think it's more important that people that are able to are pulling their weight and contributing to society.

I don’t, a lot of the those on minimum wage are the people that make the world go round. Hospital cleaners, supermarket workers, carers. Without people doing those jobs I couldn’t do mine.

Some people need to look down on others because of their own insecurities and I’m sure some of them will use jobs and/or income as a reason to do that. How are these people learning all the details about your income, whether it’s NMW or what benefits you get?

I don't give other people's income much thought, tbh.

I don't have a problem with people on NMW and recognise, as others have, that they often work harder than others in much better paid jobs.

What I do have a problem with is the fact that it was introduced. I know this is a simplistic view and it's not as black and white as this, but many companies paying NMW have wealthy owners / board members / shareholders at the top creaming off huge salaries and bonuses. I get cross that their staff have to claim benefits to make ends meet! B***ds

I mean that they should pay their staff enough to live on

Why are you putting low wage earners, those on disability benefits and those on unemployment in the same category? I don't think most people give it much though in all honesty.

🤷🏽‍♀️ I live in an area where 80% are NMW or just above .... you can't judge a whole town for not bettering themselves!

Wage inflation and general inflation are the real issues.

Some jobs are judged. Many of those pay NMW. It's that way round I think.

I judge people who judge like this.

People judge people who are NMW. It’s the idea they could work harder and earn more if they just wanted to. But most people, regardless of their salary bracket, work hard. The difference between those who are working NMW and those who aren’t is luck. For some of those not on NMW it feels like it’s undermining their hard work to say there is any element of luck. Instead they undermine others hard work rather just admitting that there is also an element of luck - luck that your parents had the education and time to read to you, luck that you were seen as smart, luck that you weren’t born with a disability.

I haven’t done the sums recently, but a couple of years ago I compared the hourly wages of someone working NMW, two children, 16 hours a week with benefits including housing benefit. The hourly income was equivalent to someone earning £130k per year full time. My gripe is that people don’t realise how incredibly generous the benefits system can be.

If people work on full time, they shouldn’t need to be on benefits, and it shouldn’t matter what types of job. People work full time should be able to afford roof over their heads, food etc, life essentials. If not, then salary needs to increase, not benefit need to increase.

I think this view is more typical on Mumsnet than in the wider population. I definitely wouldn't judge someone in that position and I honestly don't think I've ever heard anyone (outside a stranger in a pub or an older person I don't know, perhaps) express them sincerely. But I think it's depends hugely on geography. In rural and city centres, I've found a feeling that the lowest paid (farm hands, care workers, cleaners, childcare workers etc) are the hardest working people in society.

I also haven't really heard the attitude that people in receipt of disability benefits are 'scroungers', in real life - if anything the only negative emotion might be a degree of uncalled for pity. But I also haven't tended to live in areas where large numbers of people are in receipt of it (or tend not to mention it, I suppose) so again I'd say geography plays a large part.

I don't judge but I dont understand why you, as the higher earner, and with opportunity to progress, aren't working full time and your husband looking for a different job to suit the family needs?

From experience, upping your hours would likely help you get your work done within the alloted hours and reduce stress.

There is a definite view that lower earners in general should be bettering themselves and that everyone has careers to work up through.

There isn't much recognition that at a society level not everyone can be a high earner or society stops, than an individual level not everyone can progress due to different circumstances or that different industries pay differently.

I judge as far as it affects me. I’d never have dated someone with a minimum wage job (or on benefits), particularly someone who’d decided that that was as far as they could or were willing to go career wise, it wouldn’t fit in with my own income level and aspirations, and yes, I would think them unambitious. Strangers whose household finances are nothing to do with me can do what they want, I’m not that invested in their lifestyles or however they justify them.

If you want to earn more money I think it would be great to start a small home based business which you can do at your own pace. You would be able to concentrate more at home.

Think of your many skills and how you could do this.

Have you missed the part about OP having autism and ADHD and is easily burnout? OP isn’t asking how to improve her income. She is stating that whilst she is above NMW, she still isn’t able to work more than 3 days a week. Partly due to her home circumstances but also in part due to her Autism and ADHD. Upping her hours won’t help her switch off and feel like the work is done because she had autism and ADHD, all it’s going to do is make her burn out quicker.

So in fact, you are judging. This is what OP was getting at.