To think people judge others who earn NMW

[Ralliesz]

Ok so I’m curious to know if you think people in general tend to look down on low income earners or those claiming benefits? A bit of an odd question I know but I got to thinking recently as I realised that I’ve witnessed eg heard people discuss this topic and it made me a little mad as the general consensus seemed to be that people are on low incomes are simply not trying hard enough to better themselves or because they can’t be bothered to work in a “real” job and would rather claim benefits. What are your thoughts?

For what it’s worth both me and my husband work and receive UC as our son gets DLA for his disability. My husband works full time doing a manual job on minimum wage. He used to be on more than NMW due to regular bonuses but his company sold out to the Americans and since they took over they have removed bonuses and also took him off shift work so he is down an extra £50 a month.

I have always worked on NMW or just above. I currently earn £5 an hour over minimum wage but I cannot manage to work full time right now so my pay is not high. Our youngest child is autistic and needs one of us at home regularly after school. That said i only got in from work last night at 7pm which happens occasionally but thankfully our adult son still lives with us and is around of an evening to sort our son out when he gets in from school.

Anyway I’m rambling, back on topic. So like I said my husband works full time and he works very hard. He has never really earned that much more than NMW despite trying eg offering to work as a team leader to gain new skills and experience and doing various training courses, but, and he has said this himself, he has a limit to what he feels he can achieve. This stems from what he believes to be undiagnosed autism and other undiagnosed conditions eg adhd and dyslexia. Now don’t get me wrong he doesn’t use these as excuses and he works really hard in his job and everyone loves him as he’s an amazing person and a grafter but he feels he has gone almost as far as he can go job/earnings wise.

As for me, I’m diagnosed autistic/adhd and I burn out really easily despite having strategies in place and trying to be as organised as i possibly can. I know almost everyone would happily not work in their current job if they didn’t have to but for me it’s more than that. I actually enjoy parts of my job but working in general dealing with people when I have anxiety and social communication difficulties absolutely drains me and even when I’m home I find it hard to switch off as I’m constantly thinking I’ve forgotten to do something or I’m doubting myself thinking I’ve messed up my work. So for me despite earning more than NMW as an hourly wage my pay still isn’t amazing as I can only manage to work 3 days a week.

I have experienced clear judgement about this from people and also about my husband being on NMW. We both work very hard probably harder than most “non autisic/adhd” people do as we (me mostly) have to focus ten times as hard just to get things right and not screw up. Plus then factor in kids and day to day stuff well it’s hard work, which I’m sure a lot of you can relate to. Anyway sorry for rambling, I guess I’m just curious to know how people feel about others who work “normal” jobs that don’t necessarily look amazing on the outside that don’t earn a lot but whom work their assess off regardless?

Most people on NMW work so hard that they don’t have enough time to start a home based business, or the space and other resources.

If someone “betters” themselves to earn more money, that NMW job still needs doing! It seems to me that the most essential jobs are NMW - cleaners, care workers, warehouse workers, shop assistants. We rely on these people every single day, sometimes to support the most vulnerable people in society and pay them the absolute minimum we can.

if you work for one of the most successful businesses in the world (Amazon, I’m looking at you) should you not benefit from their success, even a little bit, instead of being paid the smallest possible amount they can get away with?

If you work in a supermarket, why are you paid a pittance, that needs to be topped up with benefits (paid by the tax payer) while the shareholders reap the rewards of your labour (and our taxes)?

The sole aim of a business is to create value for shareholders (who are motivated only by money) but the lowly minimum wage employee must be motivated by teamwork and a love for customer service or other bollocks. It’s a bloody joke.

Not everyone who earns minimum wage gets benefits or top ups
this gets said on every min wage thread implying everyone gets extra money

I didn't miss it but people with autism and adhd aren't the only people that get burnout and burnout isn't just from working, it's likely caused by splitting time so much between home and work and the constant feeling of being behind in both. We all know being part time rarely means less actual work, just less time to do it. If hubby did less hours and more of the house stuff and she did more hours at work, life might be easier. You don't know otherwise, and it's a perfectly fine suggestion to make for consideration about a way to smooth things.

I upped my hours for this reason and it massively helped. Reducing hours isnt the only strategy for managing burnout and, whilst it may not be the right fot for OP, it may not be something she had considered. Unlike you, i made am honest suggestion based on experience to try and help OP. My opinion is valid without making me judgemental.

All you've done is call me judgemental and agree with OP that people probably are judging her, using me as an example to prove your point. If it wasnt my post, it would have been someone elses that you used to point the finger and shout "Judging!" That's not kind or helpful or even true and probably doesn't actually make OP feel better.

Working more hours is not an answer to burnout. I don’t which corporate bullshit manual you have read that in, but you were sold a lie and I’m really sorry about that. I am not saying that only people with autism and ADHD suffer burnout but OP is suffering burnout in part due to her autism and ADHD. Probably also managing her husband’s likely undiagnosed autism/ADHD and her son’s autism, who from the OP seems to have a high support need. The answer isn’t work more. If we (society) want her to work more then actually we need to put proper support and provision in her place for her and her family.

OP has had two comments on her post about how to increase her income. Which she didn’t actually ask about. To paraphrase her OP: I worry that people think I don’t work hard enough because my husband and I are on NMW and we get UC top up. Your response was: yes, you should work more. How is that not proving the OP’s point?

We've all grown up in a society that says work hard at school, get a good job (good meaning well paid). We’ve heard this since we were tiny and it’s hard wired into our brains: work hard, earn more. So when someone is NMW they are seen to not be working hard because they don’t earn well. Hard work has no relation on how much you are paid. I’ve clearly touched a nerve with you and that’s why you’re being defensive. I would look at why you feel the need to be defensive and it’s probably because you’ve had to work through your burn out because we’ve all been taught work hard, get a good job. You actually probably need rest and a working environment that fully respected your health.

Of course I’m going to agree with OP that people are judging her! They are! I’m not going to lie to her but I have offered an explanation as to why people judge her and it’s their own perception that if they say any of it is luck, it undermines their hard work (which it doesn’t). When actually we have a society of people who are working really hard at all salary levels. Unfortunately OP can’t change her luck. She can understand she’s not lazy and anyone judging her is doing so because of their own insecurities.

You’re not being unreasonable to wonder how you both look to other people - but anyone who judges you for working very hard and raising a family with some challenging aspects (your social anxiety, DS’s autism, etc) is a bit of a C.

I'm not even going to bother to fully read or reply to you because you're making ridiculous, emotion-based comments about my "need to be defensive" with a daughter sympathetic tone, when ive already stated I've tried to be helpful based on personal experience. Nothing more to say to you.

Don’t let it bother you op, people judge no matter what. I’m on mw because I love the work, am good at it, and when I was on a higher wage I barely saw the kids during the week and hated the job! I got judged as a sahm, then a wp, and now yes I definitely get a head tilt for working on a checkout. Whatever works for you x

I think people would be more shocked to discover how many very important jobs (ie carers, child care etc) only pay minimum wage or not much more.
They wouldn't judge - they'd be more likely to be "oh my gosh is that all you get paid for doing (random but important) job" and be horrified.

Amazon is not minimum wage. I earn nearly £14 per hour and it’s the easiest job I’ve ever had

Definitely. I've been told on here that I should 'get a better paid job' . I work in a supermarket, but what most people don't know is that I also write books (very successfully) and am working there to get me out of the house and to have a regular income (royalties can vary hugely from month to month). So I can shrug off the patronising comments and the ever-so-slight sneers from the tourist customers - the regulars are very well aware of my 'proper job' and know I'm there for social reasons, not just the purely financial.

Nobody should ever judge someone working a NMW job, but I always quietly enjoy it when people judge me (and then put them in a book and kill them).

I think that there are people who judge those on benefits and that there always will be.

No idea why people would judge those earning NMW - why on earth would someone judge someone else for doing a job?

Possibly I can see that if someone has spent 3 years at uni and gained a load of debt and is now in a job they could have got at 16, you may think what a waste of time and money (debt) but that doesn’t mean you are judging them for the job that they are doing, more thinking that it’s a shame about the debt.

And also I think that NMW is a lot higher now in comparison to some other roles than it used to be. Particularly for those in public service who went for around 12 years with wage freezes or one percent rises and whose wages have gone down in real terms. There are whole grades that have disappeared as they now fall below NMW. But again, the gripe there isn’t with the people whose wages are protected, more with the political situation that has meant that other people are not being paid a fair wage for what they do. So often it doesn’t pay now to look towards promotion as the wage differential between entry level and supervisor/low level management just isn’t there.

Maybe this depends on where you live. I think there are lots of people earning min wage or within the ballpark though. Aviva is a big employer near me £25k ish, SSE, council, civil service are all within the same ballpark. Medics, teachers, dentists are the people I know who earn a good bit more.

Earning within a quid or two of min wage would probably be seen as normal where I am but I suspect different areas may skew towards higher wages so might be compared differently.

I do think people can be snootier about manual labour, I spent some time working for the local council emptying public bins, and loading on a bin lorry and the way people talk to you was shocking tbh. I earnt more money then but now I sit behind a laptop so apparently should be treated with more respect.

You are overthinking it; most people don’t care what you earn they are too busy thinking about themselves.

I would have said up until recently that I didn't judge anyone or their circumstances, because well...it has frankly very little if nothing to do with me.

Ah, but taxes and NI contributions supporting the benefits system - you say...I believe whether or not there is or is not a benefits system in place or paid for by the government health care etc we would still have taxes and contributions to pay and it could be a lot worse.

But apparently I did have a deeply hidden judgement/stigma whatever you want to lable it.

I recently changed jobs after being in senior ish role and having long service with a decent wage. Considering.

I made a move for better mental health and work life balance. The issue was, the job is nmw based plus commission. My first thought was can we manage it? Followed by what would others think about my drop into nmw?

With lots of encouragement from h and my family. I did it. Several months down the line and I'm earning more money than I though possible (way more than 60k/yr) the job is easy and delightful and I'm happy. My eyes are now open and the judgement I had before for people in my industry who "must be" living beyond their means was completely unfounded.

I've learnt to not judge and I'm alotnfreer because of it

I don't judge people who work fulltime for minimum wage, it would be a pretty stupid thing to do (judge people I mean). The fact that people can't support themselves on minimum wage alone is more an indictment of the low pay in this country. Nobody who works fulltime should need state assistance, they should be paid enough to have a comfortable lifestyle.

There are many minimum wage jobs out there. Reflects society. I do not judge in the least.

Given it is c 25k these days it strangely sounds a lot.

Self employed so I am unaccustomed to salaries these days.

I think though due to col it doesn’t go as far. I think Ivearned about 12k with my first proper job and for half my take home I could rent a flat and pay all the bills and then have a nice time. You could go out with £20 buy 20 cigarettes, half a dozen drinks and a kebab on the way home! Nowadays lots of people take home double and essential bills eat up the vast majority so life feels like drudgery with no hope as can’t save for a deposit or to travel etc.

My mortgage on a house is half the cost of renting a flat locally if you can find one.

Yes people do judge people who earn NMW. Very unfairly, I think. It doesn't matter what you do, as long as you work for a living if you're able to, you're a productive member of society.
I hate when people make derogatory comments about people working in McDonald's or pushing supermarket trolleys. Those jobs aren't lower than any other, just not as well paid. I'd like to see some well-paid executive pushing trolleys in the rain!

You know not everyone on min wage gets state assistance?

I worked in the civil service for good money and had health issues due to the stress of it all.

Moved to retail and my goodness you see a difference in the way you are treated .... huge difference.

Everyone in my social circle saw it as a step down, I saw it as a step up for my health.
People in general just look through you, like you don't exist. But it was still a great job.