Ok who wants to swap £2500 a month in benefits for my husbands MS and my epilepsy, narcolepsy and fibromyalgia.

[bluebirdblackbird]

Well according to a lot of people on here we are on a good thing.

the 20 seizures I have in a week, chronic pain and night terrors, losing my memory after a seizure, pissing myself, hallucinations. They are all great fun. Not to mention the amount of times I have been accused of being drunk after a seizure.

or there is my husband. Diagnosed with progressive MS. Cronic Pain, shaking, cronic pins and needles, weakness in limbs plus losing mobility. Had to give up his teaching job 4 months ago after gradually reducing hours.

Not to mention the judgement when we use a blue badge because we look ok in that moment. And apparently labour are going to find us both work. Yippee cant wait to meet the employer who is going to take us both on. I am sure pissing my chair on a reg basis won’t matter to them or the losing counciouness at least a couple of times a day.

i am just fed up of yet another they are on benefits and get money and it’s not fair stamp stamp stamp. The bastards have saved up for a holiday- it’s not fair. The bastards have a mobility car but they look fine, OMG- they have got new carpets or a new sofa.

since I am guessing they none of the moaners would actually swap places with us if they could then STFU.

oh and that pip that is easy to get- my husband gets lower rate for both and that is despite providing all the evidence and appealing so we are off to tribunal. He can’t even dress himself most days and he can’t hold a pan safely or manage his medication plus many other things. If he stays on the points he is on he will lose his pip completely under these new labour proposals.

but most people know someone who’s friends, aunts, nephews, stepdaughters, cousin twice removed who lied and got it. I was taking to a lady in a wheelchair who does not get any mobility component of pip at all.

I’m not disagreeing with you, except that I don’t think saying ‘it doesn’t fly’ is the point. I think the UK is in decline, the West is in decline, governments have extremely hard decisions to make, and aggressive rhetoric attacking people who pay a lot of INCOME tax (your point about NI is fair, I’d add VAT to that) is not a way forward. That is my opinion, I think public thinking is changing along the lines @Bumpitybumper talked about - the comparison with public perception around old age benefits is apt - I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying it’s the way things are going.

I’d like to see really good research into universal basic income - I don’t think our current model is sustainable anyway no matter what cuts are made. Agree with pp saying governments just tinker round the edges and think short term.

@Rosscameasdoody

Yes, you are right. I was probably getting mixed up with ESA, which I have to renew every so often for DD1. DD1 is still on ESA, with an indefinite award for DLA at the highest rate for care and mobility.

DD2 applied for PIP, because her problems only became fully apparent and diagnosed in adulthood. She was turned down, because hers were at the time, mainly mental health. As she has only applied once and then gave up due to her severe mental health problems, I am far less familiar with the PIP forms. She can't work - 2 inpatient admissions to mental health units so far this year, and she is on a cocktail of drugs, which make her sleepy and affect her memory. She doesn't qualify for ESA, because her partner earns too much. He pays the bills, but they don't share finances. She has no money of her own.

I don’t see what there is to be jealous of there, or why someone with severe mental health problems is expected to feel empathy for other people? What do people think severe mental health problems actually mean? Their mind can’t think straight!

I am not surprised you deleted whatever daft defensive nonsense message you privately messaged me @Fireandflames befire I could read it.
You will be uncovered. Just a matter of time if out walking a marathon every day!

You are asked the distance you can walk unaided

And the Gov says PIP fraud is 0%....yeah right. Fraudsters like this make me so angry. There is a whole industry on Tik Tok showing people how to apply and manipulate their answers.

I can't get PIP despite having cancer and a rare paralysing spinal Condition amongst a number of other debilitating health conditions that affect my everyday functions. Walking 10 steps is painful, let alone 28,000 and yes the assessment does ask how far you can walk.

I don't think people have an issue with those paying a lot of income tax. People have an issue with those who have multiple millions who pay very little because they can easily exploit legal loopholes available.

That's how we end up with a 'squeezed middle'. Most high rate taxpayers might be earning 6 figures but it isn't those people who are funneling their money into offshore accounts and paying a fraction, percentage wise, of those high payers earning, say, £150, 000.

The fact is that at the top end there is a vast discrepancy between those who just fall into the highest bracket and those way above it. Part of the problem lies in that. There's a lot of wealth at the top end, even without tax avoidance that could be tapped into with much less personal impact on the individual concerned, but successive governments don't do it because these are people with the power and influence that level of wealth brings.

Honestly I think you only have to read this thread to see a distinct lack of empathy towards even lower earners, never mind higher ones.

I think it is a mistake to encourage the idea that because some people have a lot of money, other people are entitled to it. Morally, I might agree. But practically, legally and economically, it is difficult if not actually impossible to achieve.

I don't have empathy for able bodied lower earners because they can literally do what they want to earn more. Disabled people not only get less than a living income (much less in my case) and we have to suffer too. So no, not much empathy here. I'd rather be in a shit, minimum wage job than be disabled.

Bullshit. Say that to the carers who work long hours in a care home. Physical work which can mess with your back/bones etc.
It's vital that work. A skill. Not anyone can do it.

Working in a care home is definitely undervalued and under appreciaited.

They need to be able bodied to do their work. They are skilled workers and sadly earn pittance.

Most disabled people do not think like this. Most of us have empathy for those struggling on low incomes, often with far from perfect health themselves. Yes I agree the minimum wage earner has an easier life relatively (but not easy at all in absolute terms) but there are loads of additional barriers to being able to earn more. And we don't want everyone in minimum/low wage jobs to find other jobs anyway. We wouldn't have any carers if they did! Although I firmly believe we should be fighting for them to receive higher incomes.

Edited to make it clear I think caring work should be better paid.

Could you point me to disabled people who think like that please? Because in over twenty years of working with the disabled I never once came across an attitude like that. Most were thankful that we live in a civilised society where the sick and disabled are taken care of - which is a world away from some of the frankly vile comments here. The point of disability benefits has been lost on this thread - the able bodied tax payer v the ungrateful scrounger trope has once again taken over as it always does on MN threads. And can I just point out that benefit claimants are tax payers too in many cases. Sickness benefits are taxable and many people claiming PIP also work and pay their taxes.

Read the comment she and me were quoting.

Having the disability itself is not how you qualify for PIP It’s how that disability affects your everyday life. Your disability is measured against the PIP descriptors and if you’re judged as not meeting that standard you won’t get an award. The assessment is not fit for purpose and needs the root and branch reform that Labour promised, and has yet again neatly sidestepped with a simple cut that will deny support to those genuinely in need.

Reapply and get some professional help filling out the forms. Supply as much evidence as you can - not just medical, but from family and friends attesting to your disability and detailing how much support they provide.

Then if you’re turned down ask for a reconsideration. You’ll probably get the same decision again so then you go to full appeal. It’s very sad that genuinely disabled people are forced to go to these lengths and add to the burden of the tax payer - appeal tribunals are very expensive. But for some it’s the only way they will get a fair decision because the expertise on appeal panels tends to be far above that of the people making the initial and in many cases, flawed decisions.

PIP was never designed for properly supporting disabled people. Disability Living Allowance did that, but the coalition government didn’t like the cost so they introduced PIP with the sole aim of saving money. It didn’t work, so here we are again - this time with a Labour government tinkering around the edges to save money instead of the wholesale reform it needs to make it fairer for all.

I did.

Did you really not know this @Rosscameasdoody ?

'i have no sympathy for low wage workers' Yadda Yadda. When quite frankly carers need to be able bodied to do their jobs.
The low wage workers she is talking about pay for her benefits.

Within their set tickbox questions.

Did I really not know what ? You are asked the distance you can walk, not the number of steps you can do throughout the day - that is not and has never been part of the assessment. And the assessment asks whether you can do it aided or unaided - using aids and appliances or with help from another person.

The distances are measured in metres and the standard for the enhanced rate of mobility component is 20 metres or less. But it isn’t simply a matter of how far you can walk. It takes into account the way in which you walk, the pain or other distress caused by doing so, whether your condition will be worsened by walking and whether or not you have to take pain meds. It looks at the knock on effects on other activities assessed too. For example, someone who is so exhausted after walking a few metres, they wouldn’t be able to do other things at the appropriate times during the day, such as preparing a meal or washing/dressing. And the ability to repeat the activity throughout the day as and when needed is also assessed.

I’ve attended PIP assessments where the claimant has been awarded the higher level mobility component, despite being able to walk over 100 metres, because the way in which they achieve that is detrimental to their condition, they are in unacceptable pain or other distress, or they cannot repeat the process without many rest stops. So the overall walking ability meets the criteria for the higher rate because the claimant is judged to have no useful walking ability.

So, if you want to catch me out you’ll have to do better than pointing out the number of steps a claimant can do, because not only is it not assessed for, it has little to do with how far a claimant can usefully walk, as per the example above - and it’s the distance and the manner in which it’s achieved that counts for PIP.

Bullshit. Say that to the carers who work long hours in a care home. Physical work which can mess with your back/bones etc.

I would absolutely say to the care staff, looking after DD1

”Would you prefer her life or yours?”

In fact, we have just picked her up for a week, and I’ll ask them when we take her back. I also know if I asked DD1 the same question, she would give her right arm to have a normal life on the NMW, rather than her life!

Anybody, who thinks any different is suffering a severe deficit in imagination.

If DD1 has a seizure and falls down unconscious, we try to slow down her fall, even if we suffer an injury ourselves. The care staff are supposed to stand back and let her fall. In general, it’s not physical work for them - it’s two people across two shifts 1:1 in the daytime getting her three meals a day, aiming the shower all over her sitting down, reading, playing games, watching TV, driving her to the shops….Then they get to home after 8 hours. Apparently, they are the highest paid care workers in the county.

And you think that in the question about distance one can walk unaided @Fireandflames put the truth? If she is pulling out the equivalent of a marathon a day!! She’d be able to walk miles unaided

you know. I know. @Fireandflames knows it

We’ll have to agree to disagree. There is a threshold under which NI contributions are not payable. So if the wage is low enough, many low wage earners are not paying for their own benefits in the form of UC top ups, let alone the OP’s or that of other disabled people. And the last time I looked everyone’s NI contributions count - it’s a pot into which we pay when able, in the hope that we can take out when we need to. It’s called a social contract. And the low wage earners of which you speak, presumably foot the bill for things like child benefit, nursery fees and up to April 2025, child tax credits. Are you saying that that’s acceptable, but contributing towards disability benefits isn’t ?