Ok who wants to swap £2500 a month in benefits for my husbands MS and my epilepsy, narcolepsy and fibromyalgia.

[bluebirdblackbird]

Well according to a lot of people on here we are on a good thing.

the 20 seizures I have in a week, chronic pain and night terrors, losing my memory after a seizure, pissing myself, hallucinations. They are all great fun. Not to mention the amount of times I have been accused of being drunk after a seizure.

or there is my husband. Diagnosed with progressive MS. Cronic Pain, shaking, cronic pins and needles, weakness in limbs plus losing mobility. Had to give up his teaching job 4 months ago after gradually reducing hours.

Not to mention the judgement when we use a blue badge because we look ok in that moment. And apparently labour are going to find us both work. Yippee cant wait to meet the employer who is going to take us both on. I am sure pissing my chair on a reg basis won’t matter to them or the losing counciouness at least a couple of times a day.

i am just fed up of yet another they are on benefits and get money and it’s not fair stamp stamp stamp. The bastards have saved up for a holiday- it’s not fair. The bastards have a mobility car but they look fine, OMG- they have got new carpets or a new sofa.

since I am guessing they none of the moaners would actually swap places with us if they could then STFU.

oh and that pip that is easy to get- my husband gets lower rate for both and that is despite providing all the evidence and appealing so we are off to tribunal. He can’t even dress himself most days and he can’t hold a pan safely or manage his medication plus many other things. If he stays on the points he is on he will lose his pip completely under these new labour proposals.

but most people know someone who’s friends, aunts, nephews, stepdaughters, cousin twice removed who lied and got it. I was taking to a lady in a wheelchair who does not get any mobility component of pip at all.

You haven’t considered that she needs that down/rest time due to the disability she has affecting her so very badly after a social event?

I travel every couple of months, just in the uk and only for a couple of days at a time. It absolutely exhausts me to the point where I do need some extra time in bed/doing very little around the house. I laugh at posters who judge me for that; imagine being so miserable that you think disabled people should be utterly poor and stay at home permanently.

I’m getting as much as I can from the poor hand I have been dealt and while I would never wish anyone to be in my position, I do wonder how the attitudes of so many would sudden alter if they found themselves suddenly disabled in any way.

A friend of mine has been struggling for about a year now with an unknown chronic illness, she is only in her 30s and had to give up work, she is in and out of hospital, having blood transfusions, recently diagnosed with cancer in top of everything, the has no idea disability was coming her way before she even turned 40 but it happened. Perhaps all the posters with nasty thoughts about disability benefits need to sit back and think about how a disability would affect their own lives. Maybe then a little bit of compassion for disabled people would start to show through.

Why are you having 20 seizures a week?

Not saying it’s not possible, but sure most people are on medication and seizure free for long periods of time ? Is it epilepsy or functional seizures?

But genuinely if you have an income of £250k a year, should you have a right to claim it? Just on principle? .

But we are talking specifically about spending money on holidays not about time off.

If the money is there, the owner of that money has the right to spend it however they see fit. Even people "lacking capacity" have the right to make "unwise decisions" about how to conduct their lives. You may feel it's unfair that you can't afford a holiday but someone receiving state support can, and you have a right to those feelings. As MN often opines, life doesn't seem "fair" sometimes. If you want to exercise your right to a holiday beyond a break from your usual routine or employment, perhaps you'd be better employed figuring out how to achieve that, rather than expending energy demanding others should be stripped of their rights when they are already at a disadvantage due to unwanted disability that they have zero choices over.

How many people have an income of £250k a year that are claiming though? The vast majority of claimants are not likely to be on high end salaries.

I would claim if I earned high though as it’s often the evidence needed by venues for access. I know it shouldn’t be but there are so many situations where a disability benefit is the only accepted ‘proof’ and if you have specific access requirements you will not get them without using the evidence the venue requests. I do think that’s another conversation though.

Medication doesn't work for everyone though. A friend's daughter has drug resistant epilepsy

"But surely those on 100k a year shouldn’t get it?"

The number of people getting PIP who earn 100k a year will be tiny.

In my view, what's really sick is the chronic lack of empathy that is now pervasive in our society. I blame social media and what passes for 'straight talk' but is really just an excuse to punch down on the more vulnerable. There is a nasty undercurrent of cruelty everywhere.

It's all a circular discussion really.

Posters will suggest that they don't think public money should be spent on things like holidays or other perceived luxuries. You can disagree with this opinion but the sentiment is pretty clear.

You and others will then post that people have the 'right' to do this under the current rules as if that's the end of the matter and no further debate is needed or possible.

It is obvious though that this isn't the end of the debate. Rules can and do change. We live in a democracy and policy usually follows public opinion. For as long as people like you continue to argue that any use of public money is acceptable then this is going to be hugely controversial and stir up a lot of resentment. Cuts and restrictions can and will be made if the population begin to believe people are taking the mick and using their taxes to fund luxuries. This is absolutely not in the interests of disabled people so it is a very precarious line to walk.

It is the principle I’m interested in regardless of numbers.

Thing is, the people who work in the tourist trade don't care where their money comes from, and if in the UK these vast numbers of "entitled" holidaymakers suddenly can't go to a static in Bognor for a week, that's a risk to an industry, with possible knock on effects to areas dependent on seasonal income etc.

We can't have it all ways. Either too many people are living high on the hog using "taxpayers money" and must be stopped, or the economy needs such people to funnel that money back into all sectors of the economy. Essentially the economy is the never ending redistribution of money to keep the wheels turning.

Where would you draw the line on the cut off? According to Scope the average disability cost per month is £1k.

And then you're means testing the blue badge, disabled persons railcard, etc.

Many people use their pip letter as proof of disability. If their income is too high what do they use?

Posters will suggest that they don't think public money should be spent on things like holidays or other perceived luxuries. You can disagree with this opinion but the sentiment is pretty clear.

What does that mean exactly in practice though? Are you proposing to enforce a holiday ban for disabled people? Ban them from buying certain items? How would you determine who is allowed to buy luxury items and who isn't? Once the rules for eligibility to certain benefits are set, you can't prescribe how someone spends their money - that would mean they are less than equal citizens and that somehow you put them under some type of conservatorship. That's not acceptable. People with disabilities have the right to make their own decisions regardless of what others think.

Also: democracy does not mean being ruled by opinions and sentiments. In fact, that's pretty much the opposite. Again, I blame social media for this misperception.

"It is the principle I’m interested in regardless of numbers."

We give to all to ensure all those that need it get it. The same way that we provide free education to all regardless of income. We know that the very high earners will be very small in number.

Holidays will be more expensive and difficult for us now due to our son's disability. A cheap camping holiday is now not possible.

I don't feel that using his DLA towards a holiday that is accessible for him is misusing his DLA.

That is so highly theoretical, it’s not worth wasting time discussing.

Yes, and the government's 'divide and conquer' mentality.

Do you remember the government doing this many years ago? Initially, it started out with advertisements advising people to report anyone working here illegally. Then it moved onto the unemployed, followed by the disabled. Eventually, we ended up with the JAMs (Just About Managing). Nobody complained about this rhetoric until it affected them personally.

Here we are again, bashing disabled people, and doing nothing about MPs claiming obscene amounts of expenses, and also the failure of the government to block tax avoidance loopholes.

A few years ago, the government ascertained (to the best of their ability) that benefit fraud was actually very low, something like 0.7%. Whereas this figure was greatly outnumbered by people not claiming benefits to which they are entitled, so overall the government were actually saving money. I know quite a few people who aren't claiming when they should be.

1. Disabled people are in working families. Many disabled people are workers.

2. If your disability costs you £500 or £1000 pcm, but you have to earn all of that money instead of say, half of it, because PIP isn’t available, then you’re effectively on a higher tax rate than your non-disabled neighbours.

A single person, with no student loan, benefits in kind, pension contributions, etc, would be paying £100,000 pa in tax and NI via PAYE on a salary of £250,000 pa. I’d say the country makes a net gain if you compare the tax they pay, as against what they might receive from PIP, and to stop complaining.

Anyway, it’s been demonstrated before on these threads, means testing costs more than it saves.

What does that even mean?

Have you got nothing better to do that mindlessly antagonise strangers on the internet?

This isn’t remotely in good faith.

@thegoodlifeha I am aware of the need for downtime. However this person's mother knows her well, and her DD was never keen on work even in her younger, healthier days. She is worried because her DD has little time for the children she chose to have, instead prioritising herself all the time. Not great for the DC is it?

@tigerrag I've just renewed my Disabled Person's railcard. It isn't free. £20 for a year.

Yes, it's often the older generation who don't want to claim for anything, although I do know a woman in her late forties/early fifties who refuses to claim PIP for her rheumatoid arthritis in case someone sees her out walking 'normally' and reports her, despite the fact that nobody will know she is claiming PIP unless she tells them! She often can't get dressed unless her partner helps her, along with lots of other daily activities she needs help with.

This is what I thought and asked initially because I earn a reasonably high salary but they said its to keep me in work and the extra expenses involved with that. I got PIP and a blue badge straight away no appealing necessary but as soon as I've recovered from my big op I'll be cancelling it. I'm not jumping on the bandwagon just because I can.