To say that university degrees are barely impressive anymore?

[PithyKhakiShaker]

It feels like degrees are everywhere now and half the time they don’t guarantee anything - not a good job, not better thinking skills, not even basic literacy sometimes. Obviously education matters but AIBU to think degrees have become so common and so varied in quality that they aren’t as impressive or meaningful as they used to be?

I haven’t once said they should be subsidised.

That was another poster. I was pointing out that “value” is much harder to quantify.

I think having fearless, free journalists is value to society, but how you pinpoint the degrees which lead to that is guesswork.

I think you could perhaps offer graduates a reduction on their student loans if they stay in the NHS or teaching for a period of time but I fear the politicians would use that as an excuse for lower wage rises over that period so effectively being financially detrimental.

If a job is valued by society it should be paid accordingly, degree or not.

And we shouldn’t be desiring a society where further education, just simply for education itself is sneered at or removed. What sort of society is that?

(And I also think more students from lower economic backgrounds should be encouraged to study creative degrees because our cultural life will, to an extent is, increasingly boring being the playground of the wealthy). But this seems an unpopular viewpoint.

Plenty of other countries have free higher education for all, but do not have a free health service. It just depends really what the country prioritises. Here we live in a nanny state where education is undervalued and that is probably why our economic productivity has gone right now.

@BobbyBiscuits @Roxietrees

I think it needs to be a first from Oxbridge or somewhere else uber prestigious. Or literally a compulsory part of a pathway like medicine or vet medicine or some kind of highly vocational or engineering/science careers.

These aren't the only degrees considered valuable by employers. Employers value a range of subjects from a wide range and type of university.
We have a skills based labour market in the UK. The current research from the ISE suggests that 86% of graduate jobs don't specify a particular degree subject. They're looking for skills.
Graduate outcomes are prioritised at all universities and think if you looked at the graduate outcome data from some the less prestigious universities you'd be surprised. I'd also look at the incredible careers and employability support offered across the sector and how ALL universities work with employers.

That's a sweeping statement I know. But I do think lots of people have been sold degrees in subjects that don't really help them get a decent career, from unis with substandard teaching and facilities.

The sector is heavily regulated. While there are small pockets of poor quality this certainly isn't widespread across the sector.
The UK has a world class higher education system. High quality teaching, research and graduate outcomes can be evidenced across the sector and across disciplines.

It's not good value for money and it's mostly working class kids that probably got affected most by this situation. Those who can least afford to waste ten grand a year for nothing much.

Again, there's no evidence of this. Working class young people are still less likely to go to university and they are more likely to choose a local, less prestigious university. Therefore it is those types of universities that are driving widening participation in the sector.
These students are also more likely to choose a vocational course which, despite what people on MN suggest, does not always lead to a high paying graduate job. Nursing, teaching, midwifery etc

Many of the top graduate recruiters favour courses such as history, and English because of the skills students develop on those courses.
The world is changing too, a few years ago everyone was advising students into software engineering - now AI can do that and graduate recruiters are telling me there is a significant drop in those types of vacancies.
Students and young people need to be prepared for a rapidly developing and changing labour market.

They ARE subsidized.

You are arguing against yourself. People can study whatever they want. They just shouldn’t study useless stuff on other people’s dime.

They just shouldn’t study useless stuff on other people’s dime.

Define 'useless' and subsidised ....

Lot's of ignorance around the financing of university education here, as is the norm on Mumsnet.

Anyway, a 'vocational ' degree is never worthless . It's the path into a well paid industry . The only other way is an apprenticeship degree.

Humanities degree's..Well I guess they are less valuable employability wise, and that's probably why they are less intense .Still, you can't knick the value of the general uni experience.

Whatever a student is studying at uni, I think it's vital that they do a year in industry or a year abroad. Get that life experience sorted.

Humanities degree's..Well I guess they are less valuable employability wise, and that's probably why they are less intense .Still, you can't knick the value of the general uni experience.

Not necessarily, a significant number of graduate jobs don't specify a particular degree subject as they're looking for skills. Many of the top graduate recruiters favour subjects such as history and English.

Well this is disheartening. At 36 I have just started my self funded, part-time-around-my-full-time-job, degree.

I went out to work at 16, did 6 years of apprenticeships to get HNC qualified. I have reached as far as I can go in my organization without one, so now I'm studying. But im glad to see its absolutely fucking pointless.

This is awesome.
Ignore the ignorant naysayers.
Enjoy your university experience ❤️

Insurance companies insist on some occupations having degree qualified people. You can't work without one.

My three DCs all had to do a masters to qualify in their fields.

But defining "useless" is impossible.

And people can only do what the system is at their time of choice.

It's this attitude that everything is all just about money, once you pay your taxes that money is no longer yours. Why don't we say our tax money goes towards "useless" degrees and your tax money goes towards "valuable" ones.

Only dumb fucks think it's pointless @MyPurpleHeart
Enjoy your learning hope it gets you where you want to be.

I'm not saying people shouldn't have fun at university. But how many of our DC have chosen a university because they see it as a place they can party for 3 years instead of looking at the educational opportunities?

0 out of 2 here

No that’s a myth. Most young people think carefully about where to go to uni - more so than when I was applying (and even at that time most people put thought into it).
You know those uber responsible school leavers who shun uni to learn a trade? Well they’re also out partying and shitfaced at the weekend. Because they are young people and that’s what they do. Students aren’t lazy wasters and most of them work part time jobs alongside studies.

agree, I never went to university, I applied & was accepted but was just so over studying & wanted to work. I have always made more money than my friends that were graduates. Now on 6 figures from gaining experience moving from operational roles to project management in tech. I’ve always said unless you have a specific career in mind that requires a degree I don’t think it’s worth going.

You are absolutely doing the right thing and you will get loads out of it and it’s a good thing to do.
The people who say degrees are pointless are either hypocrites who are doing a graduate level job and have a degree themselves yet have convinced themselves that the standards are lower these days because more people attend uni (odd logic). Or they never went to uni and have a chip on their shoulder and think graduates are lazy and lack common sense. Both are wrong. Education is a good thing and stops horrible things happening in our society such as the rise of people like Nigel Farage.

There has been a complete shift in student culture so actually no this isn't common at all.

The biggest problem tends to be parents attitude that degree must equal straight entry into a graduate level or high paying job. Unless doing nursing/medicine etc this isn't going to be the case and most know they have to gain experience as well.

I finished my degree in the financial crash the situation was dire even for STEM based graduates who historically had been able to get into positions relatively straight forward. Many of us did years of gaining experience on the side whilst having jobs which paid the bills.

I’d say the opposite actually. That unless you have a specific career in mind, you shouldn’t leave school at 18 and just get a job, any job. You happen to have done very well and are on 6 figures. I went to a school where maybe 25% went on to uni. The vast majority who left at 18 or even 16 are not working good jobs now (and it’s 20 years down the line) - they work in admin, low paid NHS roles like dental assistant, hospitality, caring or beauty. Some are doing well which tend to be men who work a skilled trade. The ones who went to uni are on the whole in much much higher paid roles.
You are the exception, not the rule. Getting a degree generally expands your earning capacity.

I’ve always said unless you have a specific career in mind that requires a degree I don’t think it’s worth going.

But you're wrong. The opposite is true.
Nobody is saying that you can't be successful without a degree. Of course you can! Buy actually, for many young people university is a great option if you don't know what you want to do. It's an opportunity to gain a valuable qualification, develop skills that are attractive to employers and get three plus years of careers and employability support.

Vocational qualifications are great and there should be more of them but you generally need to have a clear idea of what you want to do because they are training you to do a particular job.

Quite rare actually.
Student behaviour has changed and students are looking at the support a university can offer, the graduate outcomes etc.

The shift to students as consumers means they are looking for value for money and high quality student experience.

I mean i dont know but i have a friend who is a Harvard law graduate and im pretty impressed with her... i also have a friend who studied rocket science and im also impressed 😂

A decent degree from a decent uni is an asset in terms of earning power and a crap degree from a crap uni isn't.

That is not to say that if you do get a decent degree from a decent uni you will be massively successful in earning, any more than if you don't you won't.

A lot of people are still locked in a pre 1990s mindset where going to any uni doing any course and getting any result = guaranteed financial success. The world has moved on from that point.

Like the many generations of teachers that taught with “just” a Teacher Training certificate from the 1940’s to around 2000, and got many people into Universities with their skill, you mean?

Education should not be seen in this transactional way, it is not a means to an end, it has an intrinsic value and in the past that has benefitted society intellectually and emotionally. We need the Arts and Humanities like we do the STEM subjects, who do you think designs stuff, who do you think writes legislation, who do you think has the skills and abilities to work in the creative industries that contributed 124 billion to the economy in 2023!