Benefit cuts will cost the economy.

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/apr/29/labours-benefit-cuts-will-cost-uk-economy-billions-charity-says

Interesting article which repeats what some of us have been saying about the likely consequences of the proposed measures, including increased pressure on services.

I’ve mentioned on other threads, this “there are no jobs”, isn’t true.

Part of my previous job was helping people back into work and putting support in place, there are jobs. In fact active right now within a 15 mile radius of me there are over 2000 active vacancies covering everything from admin, to driving, to building, to hospitality. There are jobs, lots of jobs, they aren’t all pretty but there absolutely are jobs.

Live in your deluded little world then

They could also stop reassessing those of us who were born with our disabilities. Ignoring the ageing process, my needs are extremely unlikely to change. Contrary to what the assessor claimed, I still haven't (and because of the nature of both conditions, won't ever happen) grown out of my hearing and sight impairments.

There are 1.9 job seekers for every vacancy. There will always be vacancies because there are always people retiring, but there are also always job seekers waiting to fill those roles.

Why is the PIP fraud rate meaningless, but the fraud rate for wider benefits reliable?

They might not be aimed at the two specific situations you refer to, but they will undoubtedly affect lots and lots of people. There are disabled people telling the world a move to 4 points in one category would impact them. Will some people be able to live without it if its cut, sure. For others, it will significantly reduce their quality of life.

You can do a lot of reading about this online, if you want to.

The issue with the fraud checking process for PIP is that they pick a sample- in 2024 this sample accounted for 0.06% of claims- and they contact the claimants and verify info. How many claimants do you think answer that call and say “ha, joking, fooled you didn’t I”? Zero. The only way to accurately check for fraud with PIP would be to have feet on the ground people actively investigating and look at what people are doing, not just at the info they provide when asked. We don’t do that because there isn’t enough money to have people out doing that, but there would be plenty of people who fill the forms in to say they can’t leave the house alone, can’t go to the shop, can’t go to the toilet unaided and actually if anybody was bothering to perform in person checks on any given day would see those same people walking down to their local shop, sitting having some lunch in the cafe etc. I know a few of those just personally myself, one woman who did get reported as someone had literally compiled evidence of her doing everything she claimed she couldn’t do.

UC fraud is easier- but still not easy- to cross check, who’s earning what money, HMRC have the payslip info, who lives with you, savings limits etc. PIP fraud checks would essentially rely on someone deciding to change their story, unless you had people actively out looking.

Overpayments are usually a mistake on DWP’s end and always get raked back from a persons benefits in increments.

It’s become so much harder for people to defraud benefits these days, especially uc as they have work coaches breathing down their necks and checking their bank accounts. As for pip I shouldn’t have to tell you what a tumultuous rollercoaster claimant's have to go through in their applications.

Some people simply don’t know what they’re talking about and prefer to believe the Tory rags trying to deflect from the real crooks, which are the government and super rich.

The days the woman went to the shop or visited the cafe could have been good days for her. Even CAB will tell people to exaggerate their symptoms just to be taken seriously as the assessors deal in absolutes. I also know people who struggle but still have some good days. That doesn’t change the fact that the bad days out way the good days and the person wouldn’t be able to hold down a job without a lot of upheaval on her employers end. My sister sorely pays when she goes anywhere in the day, she’ll be in agony later on on very strong pain killers in bed. But the ignorant don’t see any of that they’re to busy trying to feel superior. Is she supposed to become a recluse with no ounce of joy in her life just to appease the pearl clutching wagging finger brigade ?

The fact some people are compiling evidence against anyone is callous and bitter and such people have to live with their conscience.

As for UC you have no idea what you’re talking about, they literally go through recipients bank account and they have to explain every purchase right down to a loaf of bread or a new kettle from Argos or passing a tenner into a friend / family members bank account.

Nobody is getting away with benefit fraud these days and if they are it won’t be for long.

It’s interesting that you’d argue PIP absolutely has a 0% fraud rate, and yet in the same breath you acknowledge that even places like CAB are encouraging people to exaggerate their symptoms to try and get it. You don’t see the irony?

I don't see the irony because PIP assessors are often unfair in their assessments. Which is why between 60 and 70% of tribunals are successful.

Okay, but if people are deliberately exaggerating their symptoms in order to satisfy the criteria to receive a benefit, what do you think another word for that might be?

Unfortunately that's the system the government has created. It's a long, hard slog to get PIP and a lot of it is about saying the 'right' things so that the assessor can tick the box.

It doesn't mean they're lying. It means they're trying not to have to go to court to prove what a doctor with years of medical training has already diagnosed.

Of course it means they are lying, they are deliberately exaggerating to be awarded a benefit because they know that if they told the truth then they would not get that exact benefit.

If PP is correct and this is the advice that places like CAB are giving out then I don’t see how anybody is shocked by the fact PIP is where the focus is for cutbacks.

But those people who are refused will then appeal and be successful in 60-70% of cases, costing far more than if they were just awarded PIP the first time.

I don't think CAB are advocating for people to lie. Just to go in and use your very worst days as your examples. So I look at that and see that the system is fit for nothing. Why are we paying untrained medics, to reassess what a doctor has already confirmed?

Most GPs don’t have a clue about what their patients can and can’t do, they wouldn’t be giving that sort of evidence to DWP

No, they're trying to make sure they get the benefits they're entitled to.

CAB shouldn't need to be involved at all.

Like I said the pip assessors deal in absolutes they judge harshly. They don’t want to hear about the few good hours you had in a week or how you pushed yourself (and paid for it later) to go the shop or for a coffee because you felt like you would off yourself out of sheer loneliness or Boredom and misery.

The fact that CAB and other professional advisors tell potential claimants to exaggerate and not speak of the one ounce of positive they may experience in a day, week, month because it’ll go against them then that’s the real problem. If anybody’s illness (whatever it is) outweighs the good then in a civilised society they should get help.

It seems like you are committed to your narrative on benefit scroungers and fraudsters. You probably only believe people are really ill if they’re severely mentally disabled or in a coma.

But they’re only entitled if they lie about their symptoms, if they told the truth they won’t be entitled?

I'm not saying they are giving evidence to the DWP. What I'm saying is, if a person has been diagnosed with an illness or disability by a medical professional, I don't see the value in having an untrained person deciding the impact that illness or disability has on their life.

It's evident that the current method isn't working, given we have so many successful appeals.

I don't know if you're deliberately missing the point or not, I can't tell

This is for the naysayers because I used the word exaggerate.

I know people who are being denied pip even when they have specialist/ consultant letters from the hospital even when their bones are crumbling or have degenerative illness that will not get better but only worse. Some of these people where initially refused pip because they had their word twisted because they said they could brush their teeth standing at the sink or make themselves a sandwich.

They went to places like CAB for help with forms etc and were told how harsh and barbaric the whole system is so not to talk about anything positive because the assessors will run with it or twist words, like most be be bureaucratic nonsense.

They love to play god and refuse people.

I would just like to say I worked for CAB for six years and never encouraged people to exaggerate symptoms for PIP claims. I would not be involved in any kind of fraudulent activity like that.

That is really interesting and is what I’d have hoped would be the case, especially as you acknowledge to do so WOULD be fraudulent activity. Thank you for that input :)

You obviously don’t listen to what people are telling you and are comfortable running with a word I used (exaggerate) because it suits your confirmation bias.

Maybe you should be a PIP assessor they also ignore 99% evidence also.

So You would advise people to talk about their short lived positive hours/days knowing full well it would go against them ?

I doubt that very much.