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Benefit cuts will cost the economy.

614 replies

MistressoftheDarkSide · 29/04/2025 08:33

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/apr/29/labours-benefit-cuts-will-cost-uk-economy-billions-charity-says

Interesting article which repeats what some of us have been saying about the likely consequences of the proposed measures, including increased pressure on services.

Labour’s benefit cuts will cost UK economy billions, charity says

Trussell report finds that higher levels of poverty mean Britain is losing out on £38bn a year of potential output

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/apr/29/labours-benefit-cuts-will-cost-uk-economy-billions-charity-says

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 14:58

Hyteffsxg · 29/04/2025 14:54

Back when I was a missguided libertarian I had the view that in the past "the charities and the churches looked after the poor. We didn't need government."

What happened to enlighten you?

WeylandYutani · 29/04/2025 14:59

@Octavia64 yes I remember a post from someone with ADHD who claims PIP for physical health reasons, but she still had to list all her diagnoses of which ADHD bothered her the least. But she would still be in the PIP for ADHD figures.

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 29/04/2025 15:04

WeylandYutani · 29/04/2025 14:59

@Octavia64 yes I remember a post from someone with ADHD who claims PIP for physical health reasons, but she still had to list all her diagnoses of which ADHD bothered her the least. But she would still be in the PIP for ADHD figures.

Possibly me! ADHD was listed at the top of one of the documents I had, even though I was claiming for a brain tumour and epilepsy. Still count in the ADHD statistics though!

Frequency · 29/04/2025 15:08

I still want to know where all the jobs are coming from?

There are currently 1.9 job seekers per vacancy. So, almost twice as many job seekers as there are jobs available.

Adding more job seekers to the pool is not going to get more people overall into work because the work is not there, especially when you consider that not all jobs will be open to all job seekers. Some of those vacancies will be highly skilled roles requiring technical certifications, leaving even fewer vacancies for those at the bottom and middle, exactly where the people pushed off of PIP would end up.

Step 1 needs to be creating more jobs via economic growth.

nearlylovemyusername · 29/04/2025 15:15

MistressoftheDarkSide · 29/04/2025 09:39

Well, obviously it's complicated..... the wider global economy is struggling due to geopolitics as it stands. There's the whole impact of technology and the speed at which it is changing the face of employment, starting with recruitment which helps weed out many applicatnts before they get the chance to "prove" themselves at interview.

Figures suggest there are fewer vacancies than unemployed people as it stands.

Driving people to destitution then expecting them to slide into gainful employment regardless of circumstance is rather unrealistic. Every proposed solution comes with a problem.

What are your suggestions, given the state of the world we live in?

what are YOUR suggestions?

you say it's all very difficult, yes we all know this.
What do you propose? for ever shrinking number of taxpayers to continue funding ever expanding welfare state?

ByBoldOP · 29/04/2025 15:16

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 10:54

It needs an employer-side effort, and a government-side effort be that compulsion or tax breaks or DEI-led recruitment.

Overwhelmingly it is easier to stay in work or resume work after disability, if you’re a professional or have a skill. Employers seem to feel it’s worth making adjustments for a professional with in-demand abilities or qualifications.

The end of the employment market that consists of many NMW employees is less keen to accommodate disabilities.

Historically, the disabled would have been left at home to rot, depending on the voluntary efforts of family. Which was a waste of skills and labour, a demand on the army of unpaid women who used to run everything, and generally a relic of the Victorian era.

Everybody needs food, clothing, shelter. You either have a system that enables nearly everybody to earn their own. Or you have a system that makes modest provision for those that can’t (or aren’t allowed to by capitalism).

PIP has absolutely nothing to do with work. It’s paid based on the difficulty level
a disability causes. That’s written into the criteria.

What has happened, though, is that increasingly, the third party, private sector PIP assessors have simultaneously become informally obsessed with the idea that disabled people in work somehow metaphysically aren’t truly disabled. That was the Tory-era effort to cut PIP by just denying people entitlement by incentivising assessors to pick holes.

Similtaneously, as part of a general societal move to vaguely “be aware” of MH, we are now paying more PIP for anxiety, handing out blue badges for anxiety, and now the discovery has apparently been made that a lot of those new additional people are NEETS. WHO knows whether that’s true? I certainly don’t trust political rhetoric and tax payers who are suddenly referring to all disabled people as “shirkers”.

My child is a neet - have you tried getting support for children who can't access education.
Years of fighting for adequate education got nowhere. Child will likely never work and need lifelong support.
Irony being if LA had funded the support child needed in primary the outcome could have been very different.

Octavia64 · 29/04/2025 15:17

next statement:

most medical equipment is supplied free of charge by adult social care.

now data on this is more complicated because there’s a lot of medical equipment out there.

the nhs will assess you for a wheelchair and if they feel you need one they will give you a budget towards it.
https://www.england.nhs.uk/personalisedcare/personal-health-budgets/personal-wheelchair-budgets/frequently-asked-questions/#will-personal-wheelchair-budgets-be-available-to-everyone-who-has-an-assessment-via-their-nhs-commissioned-wheelchair-service

in my area that budget was about 1.5k which is ok for a manual or an electric but not if you need anything more complicated.

I worked in a school with students with severe physical disabilities and it’s very very common now that families need to fundraise for wheelchairs.

i won’t post any of the appeals by families I worked with but a quick google throws up a lot of appeals for example this one:

https://www.huntspost.co.uk/news/22982061.st-neots-mum-appeals-help-buy-new-wheelchair-son/

this is also the case with adults - a friend of mine has severe MND and is slowly losing control of his muscles (like Stephen Hawking) and they have to pay for customised wheelchairs.

as people get worse and their medical needs change they need different chairs as well.

i’ve never know anyone get support from adult social care for any of this.

(I appreciate this is not strictly data, and that the poster did excempt wheelchairs but honestly they are so expensive. My daughters was 8k and that’s the cheap end)

NHS England » Frequently asked questions

NHS England » Frequently asked questions

https://www.england.nhs.uk/personalisedcare/personal-health-budgets/personal-wheelchair-budgets/frequently-asked-questions/#will-personal-wheelchair-budgets-be-available-to-everyone-who-has-an-assessment-via-their-nhs-commissioned-wheelchair-service

Octavia64 · 29/04/2025 15:20

Next,

the statement was

“the ever shrinking number of tax payers”.

the percentage of people in the U.K. paying tax is going up and has for the last couple of years.

data over time here:

https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-data-item/number-taxpayers-and-higher-rate-taxpayers-over-time

Vinvertebrate · 29/04/2025 15:21

User46576 · 29/04/2025 13:56

According to the government the majority of claims for pip are for non physical disabilities. What “equipment” do you claim these people need?

We claim DLA for DS at middle rate, which is about £300 per month. He has autism and ADHD and needs special food because of ARFID. (He only eats M&S black olives in a jar, one flavour of Innocent smoothie that I have to buy direct from the manufacturer, etc). He also needs clothes in natural fibers with no seams - luckily there are a few businesses supplying this for ASD kids now, but they are not cheap. He also needs adaptations to his bedroom to accommodate his sensory needs, and I buy Melatonin online from the USA so he stays asleep for more than two minutes. He can’t really do playdates or friends so we spend a lot on keeping him entertained at home. He needs one-on-one for any sporting activities because he can’t cope with noise or crowds. It all adds up to way more than £300 a month.

Incidentally, I spent £35,000 of my own money to get him diagnosed in an acceptable timeline, which would have been impossible on the NHS. If DLA is a money-printing racket, I must be missing a trick! 🤷🏻‍♀️

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 15:23

ByBoldOP · 29/04/2025 15:16

My child is a neet - have you tried getting support for children who can't access education.
Years of fighting for adequate education got nowhere. Child will likely never work and need lifelong support.
Irony being if LA had funded the support child needed in primary the outcome could have been very different.

Yes I had a school refuser for a while and CAMHS provision is very thin on the ground, I know. Ageing out of the paediatric system is even worse.

If the situation had carried on longer than it did, though, I think I’d have been frankly pissed off if they had been given PIP. They do have disabilities but they can work nonetheless. I wouldn’t want them to have an unearned income for the disabilities before they’d had the chance to earn their money. I think you need to discourage inertia.

OTOH, I’d have welcomed them signing on 1) to protect their NI record and 2) So they be getting support/pressure from someone other than me.

This is all assuming that nobody is using “NEET” to refer to the ex-special school pupils with moderate to severe needs who can’t get a job for love nor money. Hopefully nobody would be so cruel. I think we need remploy type provision for that group. We are in a public provision desert, currently.

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 15:26

I think you’re quite right @ByBoldOPthat to the extent that benefit bills are being pushed up, it’s dilutes in the NHS, education and affordable housing that’s causing them. It’s what happens when you underfund services. It’s awful.

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 15:30

Vinvertebrate · 29/04/2025 15:21

We claim DLA for DS at middle rate, which is about £300 per month. He has autism and ADHD and needs special food because of ARFID. (He only eats M&S black olives in a jar, one flavour of Innocent smoothie that I have to buy direct from the manufacturer, etc). He also needs clothes in natural fibers with no seams - luckily there are a few businesses supplying this for ASD kids now, but they are not cheap. He also needs adaptations to his bedroom to accommodate his sensory needs, and I buy Melatonin online from the USA so he stays asleep for more than two minutes. He can’t really do playdates or friends so we spend a lot on keeping him entertained at home. He needs one-on-one for any sporting activities because he can’t cope with noise or crowds. It all adds up to way more than £300 a month.

Incidentally, I spent £35,000 of my own money to get him diagnosed in an acceptable timeline, which would have been impossible on the NHS. If DLA is a money-printing racket, I must be missing a trick! 🤷🏻‍♀️

£35k?! Sheesh.

A lot of these cuts and shortages date back to the austerity cuts after the 2008 crash.

It boggles the mind that a Labour government, of all people, can’t see that lack of services is the issue, here.

Widowerwouldyou · 29/04/2025 15:33

the fact that calculator is called ‘Entitled’ says it all. We have allowed a situation where people assume entitlement.
Like those threads where the OP is thinking of leaving her DH and is urged on to check what ‘benefits she is ‘entitled to’.

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 15:34

Widowerwouldyou · 29/04/2025 15:33

the fact that calculator is called ‘Entitled’ says it all. We have allowed a situation where people assume entitlement.
Like those threads where the OP is thinking of leaving her DH and is urged on to check what ‘benefits she is ‘entitled to’.

Yes. They’ve gone from money for those in desperate and unavoidable need, so a constant fallback that is there to right every unfairness in life.

WeylandYutani · 29/04/2025 15:36

Widowerwouldyou · 29/04/2025 15:33

the fact that calculator is called ‘Entitled’ says it all. We have allowed a situation where people assume entitlement.
Like those threads where the OP is thinking of leaving her DH and is urged on to check what ‘benefits she is ‘entitled to’.

What is wrong with the word 'entitled'? What else do you think it should be called?
I am on benefits I am entitled to.

Widowerwouldyou · 29/04/2025 15:36

And these threads always lead to a certain coterie of posters drawing all the focus to the extreme cases of people with multiple disabilities rather than the ones who could work and don’t. I know three women who play the system to get ‘benefits’ - ‘justifying’ it by the fact that they are 60 and ‘should be getting a pension’. One of them managed to keep that going till she did actually get her pension, having claimed benefits most of her life. None of those have any disability. They could work but choose not to.

Thronglet · 29/04/2025 15:38

Hyteffsxg · 29/04/2025 13:35

I was just wondering why PP starved herself if she can't cook.

What do you expect me to eat? I'm on an incredibly low budget for food. It sounds like an obvious solution that I should eat food that requires little preparation. I've already explained that those foods aren't in my budget. One single takeaway at the cheapest price I can find wipes out my entire food budget for a week. Ready meals are too expensive too, especially three ready meals a day!

I can't just have dozens and dozens of punnets of grapes delivered and live off those, even if I could afford that many grapes. Could you?

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 15:38

ByBoldOP · 29/04/2025 15:16

My child is a neet - have you tried getting support for children who can't access education.
Years of fighting for adequate education got nowhere. Child will likely never work and need lifelong support.
Irony being if LA had funded the support child needed in primary the outcome could have been very different.

What kind of support would’ve changed the outcome?

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 15:42

BottleBlondeMachiavelli · 29/04/2025 15:26

I think you’re quite right @ByBoldOPthat to the extent that benefit bills are being pushed up, it’s dilutes in the NHS, education and affordable housing that’s causing them. It’s what happens when you underfund services. It’s awful.

Which service is underfunded?

nearlylovemyusername · 29/04/2025 15:44

Octavia64 · 29/04/2025 15:20

Next,

the statement was

“the ever shrinking number of tax payers”.

the percentage of people in the U.K. paying tax is going up and has for the last couple of years.

data over time here:

https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-data-item/number-taxpayers-and-higher-rate-taxpayers-over-time

It would be helpful to apply some basic analytics before posting - the number of taxpayers and higher rate taxpayers is increasing because of tax bands freezes whilst wages are growing, not because of more people being employed.

Can you post equivalent stats on number of people on benefits over time and value of welfare bill? this will show you rather different picture, very shocking one

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 15:45

Octavia64 · 29/04/2025 15:20

Next,

the statement was

“the ever shrinking number of tax payers”.

the percentage of people in the U.K. paying tax is going up and has for the last couple of years.

data over time here:

https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-data-item/number-taxpayers-and-higher-rate-taxpayers-over-time

Well it hasn’t, we’ve just about reached 2006 levels recently.

Daughterillness · 29/04/2025 15:45

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 14:46

Hence all the ‘what do I spend my PIP/DLA on’ threads on here?

Probably started by trolls wanting to make out that there are PIP claimants rolling around in piles of cash that they don’t know how to spend in order to fit their agenda. Meanwhile
back in the real world of actual claimants there are individuals and families scraping by a they are having to access private treatments and therapies as the nhs waiting lists are months if not years.

Frequency · 29/04/2025 15:46

Kindersurprising · 29/04/2025 15:42

Which service is underfunded?

All of them.

Mental health services and early intervention are all but extinct, especially for young people.

Affordable housing has waiting lists of over 10 years in many areas, and the NHS is on its knees.

MidnightMeltdown · 29/04/2025 15:48

Typical Guardian drivel. They’re always squealing for more benefits to be dished out. Most working people don’t agree with them, hence the small readership.