To think parents who “don’t believe in punishment” are raising kids who’ll be future problems for everyone else?

[OneNeatLeader]

The world will say no - eventually.

Saying no is different to punishment

I agree wholeheartedly

punishing children does help the economy, all jobs and money spent on mental health treatment and the entire justice/prison system.

Children need boundaries, and consequences if they break the boundaries. The consequences should be about repairing the situation.

That's different to 'punishment', which is someone with power inflicting pain on someone less powerful.

I say "no" to my kids - a lot! But punish? It has never been necessary..they are well behaved - teachers etc comment positively on their manners.
What sort of punishments are you talking about? Hitting children is a non-starter. Confiscating devices or cancelling treats I guess could be done. But it is possible to raise thoughtful kids without that stuff.

What has beaten the crap out of children given us in the past or any other form of parenting?

All have their pros and cons.

I think better education plays the bigger role.

I'm old enough to remember some fairly awful people in my locality, they were bought up with a harsh hand or none at all, the commonality was v poorly educated parents.

What do you define as punishing?
I don’t really punish my kids, they have boundaries and respect because I’ve taught them both which means I haven’t really needed to punish them.

That really depends on how it is executed.

Punishment is not actually that effective in preventing me future bad behaviour.

The best thing you can do I'd help children understand and regulate their emotions and let them take accountability for their actions. In other words let them (in an age appropriate way) clean up their mess.
They broke something? They clean up the mess (or help). They hurt somebody? They need to apologise and (if appropriate) miss out on a fun activity. They stole something? They need to return/ replace it?
Nobody got harmed and there is no natural consequence? Maybe think about whether there was a crime in the first place.
There is a whole world between punishing and letting kids get away with murder.

Depends what is meant by punishment

We've tended to use natural consequences rather than punishment but the line is blurry. We do say no.

We've never done the whole removing toys thing as a rule because I tend to see things like that as often being said out of anger/spite by a mum trying desperately to do anything to strike a chord but often not. Its normally a spiral of desperately increasing lengths of time and items that in my experience is rarely followed through
We have removed toys at other times though because they couldnt be trusted with them

And saying no isn’t a punishment, so I’m not sure your post makes much sense.

That’s fair and I’m definitely not talking about hitting children either! I meant more about setting consequences when needed, like losing a privilege or earning back trust. It’s great that you’ve been able to set limits with just communication, that’s honestly ideal. I just sometimes wonder if when parents say they ‘don’t believe in punishment’ they sometimes mean they don’t believe in consequences at all. And in real life, consequences are inevitable.

I wasn’t talking about physical punishment at all. I meant more that kids need to experience consequences and limits in some form because the real world isn’t consequence-free either. Education definitely matters too but I think boundaries and accountability at home help prepare kids for life beyond school as well.

It depends on how you define words. I am all for natural consequences and accountability.

Punishment? No.

I say "no" to my kids - a lot! But punish? It has never been necessary..they are well behaved -

It's probably never been necessary due to your parenting and not being frightened to use the word no.

People take note.....saying no to your DC when needed isn't abusing or punishing them in any way.

Depends what you mean by ‘setting consequences’ as punishment. Emotional and verbal punishments can be just as bad as physical punishment.

I don't shout much or punish.
I do engage robustly with boundaries, I do tell them "no", I do give natural consequences.

For example, DS was told not to have drinks near his computer as he is quite clumsy. He had a drink near his computer. He spilled the drink and ruined his computer. Other than telling him that we assume he now understood the reason for that rule he wasn't punished any further; The natural consequence had already been applied. He'd broken his own computer. We did not replace it, he had to save up and buy his own. We did somewhat facilitate this by giving him money towards it at his birthday, but it still took 2 years. He took much better care of the replacement computer.

My kids are adults now and they are not a future or indeed current problem for everyone. They are decent, law abiding, kind people.

Same, I say no and I say why it is a no and if possible, how to make the no into a yes. Even a 2yo can understand “No, don’t touch that it is too hot”

Beating the crap out of children has always been illegal

Depends what you mean by "punishment". Having boundaries and consequences for not sticking to them is fine, children need that certainty. "Punishment" sounds to me more about hurting a child in some way, mentally or physically just because the punisher has more power.

No it hasn’t. Pre 1880 it was totally legal. Even after child protection laws were passed, it wasn’t enforced and was socially acceptable for another century.

I voted YABU.

But based on the fact you said “punishment”.

i separate this to natural consequences. I’ve always been strict but I’ve wanted to raise DS to do the right thing because it’s the right thing and NOT for fear of punishment.

And before anyone slates me he’s never got into trouble in his life and he’s 20 now!

We have not used punishment with our children.

We have said no when needed although my default has been to ask myself if I can say yes before I say no.

We have used natural consequences as much as possible and worked on theory of mind in order to understand consequences on other people.
Our children have generally behaved well, had good social skills, nice friends and relationships.

I look after my 22 month old GC and absolutely agree that at that age they understand pretty much everything I say, know when they've done something, shall we say, "ut oh" and definitely copy what I do.

A good reminder that DC copy and pick up, pretty quickly what they see around them.
Like my own DC I wany my DGC to be a well behaved person.

Lead by example and you'll reap what you sow.

Punishments are just consequences

I don't really understand how you can raise kids without any consequence whatsoever.

It's not even healthy to have kids who don't try to push boundaries from time to time. I'd be honestly worried to have kids who are absolute angels. It's weird.

No, punishments are not just consequences, they are in addition to consequences (by definition).