To think parents who “don’t believe in punishment” are raising kids who’ll be future problems for everyone else?

[OneNeatLeader]

The world will say no - eventually.

It's really fun teaching some of these kids, I can tell you that much!

Mum is often not fun to pop a phone call into, either!

Lots of denial and 'not MY child' and 'what had been done TO THEM to make them act that way' etc.

Generally an all round pain in the arse.

Schools absolutely rely on punishments, especially secondaries. Try passing an Ofsted inspection without a solid behaviour policy that is effective and adhered to by all!

I agree that the softly-softly, meekly spoken, 'now, now, darling, let's talk about your feelings' brigade can absolutely set their kids up to struggle later on.

I do accept that these people are genuinely not parenting in the way the method is designed to be, though.

That's not my understanding of punishment and usually how its used in child related spaces

Normally punishment is used when it's not a naturally occurring consequence or directly related

Eg. Taking toys, grounding, naughty corners etc

If you have good boundaries, reasonable expectations amd consequences in place there’s no need to punish

Honestly? YABU for not being clearer about what you meant in your OP is my first thought. You seem to have used the word punishment when it isn't actually what you meant?

Punishments and consequences are not the same thing at all.
Consequnces teach. Punishments control.

A consequence is a natural or imposed outcome of a behaviour.
A punishment is a ‘pay back’ type action.

A consequence is meant to teach, maintain accountability, and maintain safety.
A punishment, however, is something quite different. The goal of a punishment is to shame, guilt, impose authority, or harm. The motivation behind a punishment comes from a place of emotion and a need to maintain control.

@OneNeatLeader which do you think we should use to raise our kids? Which do you use to raise yours?

I'd love to know what "consequence" are not punishment...
It makes no sense

A consequence is meant to teach, maintain accountability, and maintain safety.
A punishment, however, is something quite different. The goal of a punishment is to shame, guilt, impose authority, or harm. The motivation behind a punishment comes from a place of emotion and a need to maintain control.

are you quite all right?

The mind of some posters on here genuinely worries me. I have punished my kids. There was no "shame/ guilt/ imposing harm" involved FFS

That’s fair - I could’ve worded it better. I wasn’t talking about harsh punishments like hitting but more about consequences, structure and learning limits. I guess I used ‘punishment’ in a looser sense that some people understood it.

Well if punishment is so effective, why is repeat offending such an issue in the prison population?

Understanding the consequences and impact of one's behaviour is an essential element of growing up. But in my experience (40 years in education and parenting), the parents who simply rely on "punishment" I.e. throwing out grounding or tech removal without all the other essential elements like modelling behaviour, talking together,valuing time together, etc. do just as poor a job as those that do nothing and let their kids run riot.
Successful parents build relationships, have expectations and boundaries that are reasonable not draconian, and use natural consequences rather than punishments.

Can you give an example?

I’m great thanks 😆

Look it up if you’re struggling to understand what a punishment is.

It's good you can see where you went wrong, OP. Not many are prepared to admit it, so fair play to you for that. 🙂

please feel free to explain and give examples of what YOU call a "punishment" given to a child as opposed to a "natural consequence".

I can't wait.

“I can’t wait” are you ok? You seem very upset about this topic?

Punishment

• Definition: Punishment is the infliction of suffering or a penalty as retribution for an offense. It's often focused on making someone feel bad for their actions.
• Intent: To deter future wrongdoing by making the offender experience something unpleasant.
• Examples:
• Spanking a child for misbehaving.
• Sending someone to prison.
• Imposing a fine.
• Characteristics:
• May not be directly related to the offense.
• Can be focused on control rather than teaching.
• May lead to negative emotions like resentment, fear, and anger.

Consequence

• Definition: A consequence is the result or outcome of an action. It can be natural or imposed.
• Intent: To teach responsibility and help individuals learn from their actions.
• Examples:
• Natural consequence: If you don't wear a coat in cold weather, you feel cold.
• Logical consequence: If you break a toy, you can't play with it.
• Characteristics:
• Should be related to the behavior.
• Focuses on learning and understanding the impact of one's choices.
• Aims to promote accountability.

picturethispatsy

I am just curious, you are the one who sounds upset.

So you think, and I quote, Sending someone to prison or imposing a fine qualify as a punishment for children? That's what you think happens when we punish our children?😂

I was trying to have a discussion, if you are just quoting your latest google search without actual example, you are wasting everybody's time 😁

Or maybe you can't come up with a "natural consequence" that YOU imposed on your child but that wasn't a punishment maybe?

I am trying to have a discussion too but for some reason you don’t like the facts. I posted the difference between the two words/concepts to make it crystal clear for you and originally in response to a previous poster. I was clearly not suggesting sending a child to prison! 😂 that was just one of the examples.

The fact is a consequence isn’t imposed. A punishment is imposed. So no I can’t come up with a consequence that was imposed as they are contradictions in terms.

It's litterally in the definition YOU POSTED

Consequence
Definition: A consequence is the result or outcome of an action. It can be natural or imposed

Please feel free to read your own posts ...
I am not agreeing or disagreeing about your post, I just quoted it.

So a consequence can be imposed but I’m still not sure what your point is or what you’re getting at?

Sadly, that ship has sailed. We've already, people (parents to boot) on here who don't open their door, who won't answer a phone unless you've texted them to say you're going to ring, who think every dog is Cujo, and that the school WA group is out to get them.

I said that punishments and consequences were the same thing - in this context obviously.

You disagree, so I asked you to clarify.

And here we are.

No I don’t agree. And I already did clarify. Read my posts.

A consequence (imposed or otherwise) is different to a punishment. A consequence has a different intent. It is there to teach or guide and is related to the ‘error’ made. A punishment is purely to, well, punish via retribution or a ‘payback’ scenario. A consequence even an imposed one is there to guide a child to make a better choice or do better in future. A punishment is there to make someone feel bad and isn’t necessarily related to the ‘crime’.

If you want to keep going in circles, I leave you to it. No, punishing a child is not "a payback" or any other nonsense you mentioned earlier.

When we ask you to come up with actual examples about real parenting, you quote definitions you don't agree with, and vague theories that explain nothing.

My point stands, and you just disagree for the sake of it without any argument to back it up.

I’m not sure why you need a real life example from me. It’s not difficult to understand the difference.

Let’s agree to disagree shall we.

Punishments ARE consequences, that is my point. If you can't come up with one example of an imposed consequence, or a consequence that is not a punishment, you are just proving said point. There's no difference.

I wasn't saying any more than that.

Proves absolutely nothing.

Lets agree to disagree.