Teacher showing photos to kids of victorian dead children - slightly disturbing

[whyiwonderwhy]

I am finding this so disturbing I can't sleep! However I might be being oversensitive, who knows. It is the "but - WHY?" bit which is bothering me most.

The lesson was about the industrial revolution, and the subject of photography came up, 2 of the earliest photos were shown to the class (13-14yo) and then....I wish I could say the teacher showed photos of some of the extraordinary engineering inventions of the day, or of busy streets, or China, or something wonderful and extraordinary...but no, the teacher showed 10 photos of dead children and talked about how the Victorians would photograph dead children as though they were still alive, with the rest of the family, in a commemorative way. I have seen some in the past (I didn't learn about it at school however) and they are moving and tragic and disturbing. Nothing else, just these photos.

Just wondering...why? why would the teacher do this? Any ideas?

This teacher has form by the way. A lot of it. But this has for some reason blindsided me.

It's an interesting cultural shift, but I'm not sure why a teacher would focus on this.

I’m afraid you seem to have a very narrow view of what constitute ‘a lot more relevant and useful things to spend time on’ in studying this period of history.
There were many new and exciting inventions which helped in manufacturing, travel, construction etc, but with these came positive and negative outcomes. Some of the consequences of these were over-populated slum housing, poor working conditions and mass poverty leading to high rates of child mortality. These are very relevant topics of study if you want to know the human impact of the Industrial Revolution.
I would have found the photos strange and sad, but would also have been fascinated and intrigued to know more about the lives (and deaths) of people at that time.

“this teacher has form by the way”
I’ve skimmed the thread but can’t find anything. Can you give examples of what this teacher has done in the past, OP? Thanks

I’d have no problem with this. I’ve seen several examples. Believe you me most kids that age have seen much more disturbing stuff. This might make the subject more interesting.

Can you provide sources for anything you say? You are incorrect and I would be interested to know what made you think all this.

I think if you read all my posts you may intuite an answer to your question!

Which would be a firm no.

We were shown pictures of the Holocaust at that age.
I think much worse.
Surely your children will have or will be learning about that .
You can't change history ..

This

I don't think that's on topic with the Industrial Revolution. It's not inappropriate in terms of age/content possibly but has absolutely nothing to do with what they've been learning or should be learning. I agree they should be learning about the mule or the spinning Jenny or child labour or the poem "London".

Are these pictures a part of the curriculum? Genuine question. If so, could you link a source? Thanks

Ok. Thanks. I obviously missed your post when I skimmed through.

You know every teen in the history class on a personal level and have an in-depth idea of what motivates them? And you could engage them all perfectly? With skills like that you are wasted in whatever your industry is and you should definitely try teaching.

Same question - can you link something to indicate that these pictures form part of the curriculum? Thanks

Is that on the curriculum? If you’re joking, it’s actually quite a good idea. It would engage some teens who aren’t natural History enthusiasts.

She's not incorrect. Historian here - in large part, it's an internet hoax. Specifically, there is no contemporary evidence that dead subjects were ever posed as if living. See the link I gave upthread, which gives a reputable debunking of this.
I'd be really interested to see any contemporary evidence of this practice, or any instances of reputable historians giving credence to this, or any peer-reviewed journal articles that discuss this supposed practice.

So far as I can tell, the only 'evidence ' of this occurring is a bunch of randoms on the internet claiming that this or that photo shows a dead subject posed as if alive.

Sorry to get so worked up, but I find it concerning that a history teacher is teaching this as fact, without having interrogated the sources.

They are old enough to understand/ handle the pictures. Especially with all the knife crime going around at that age.

See my posts up-thread. Evidently, you can!

You can’t post on AIBU and then get shirty if you’re sensitive to responses like this. This is the tone of the board.

Look, when my dd was in year 9, they were shown photos of Jack the ripper’s crimes. I think that was worse. Some things are a bit morbid but are part of history. Year 9 is old enough to learn about such things. IMO

OP, unless you are a teacher you have no idea about engaging a class full of students of this age, day in, day out. (If you are a teacher of this age group, then I apologise and please disregard the comment).

Off the top of my head no, but purely because I wanted to be a Funeral Director when I was younger and in lieu of being able to actually do it (disability) I read extensively on pretty much everything to do with funereal customs in western cultures. So it was largely info gleaned over the past 20 years, as well as having a minor in manual photography. However, there is an excellent TikTokker called Mama Macabre who has extensive expertise on Memento Mori and talks through photographs, customs and evidence (both cultural and photographic). I will warn you as a courtesy though, her channel contains many many many images of the dead of all ages, including babies and some of whom were embalmed less well than others. She also addresses images found on line and whether they are fake or not.

It is far easier to tell a definitely deceased person than someone ambiguous, if that makes sense. There are tell tale
signs that if present means definitely deceased (faint mottling of the face or a sunken mouth, darker shading to feet even if lying down) and if not present - well, if not present it could be either way. The supposedly ‘posed as alive’ images usually have slight blurring on the facial features which is an indication of life - corpses don’t move - but not all live pictures have blurring as some people can stay still better than others.

Why is a teenager knowing that sexual assault is a thing inappropriate? Wouldn’t you have had consent discussions etc long before 14/15? So many people now label everything as “trauma” and I worry massively that we are going to have a whole generation of people in the work place who simply cannot cope with exposure to anything. People I know in managerial roles give overwhelming feedback that the new starters coming out of school today are completely unprepared for real life! I heard a story recently about the mother of one 19 year old picking boxes in the freezer section of a warehouse phoned his boss (my Dad’s colleague) to complain her child was cold 🙈. Reading MN, this doesn’t surprise me! We need to be trauma informed and aware of feelings but we also need to prepare children for the fact that in the real world no one cares and there is a level of just getting on with it that comes with adult life!

I’ve read through and haven’t seen anything specific, unless you mean that details of the teacher’s “form” would be outing. I was going to suggest, however, that if you are worried about other things the teacher has focused on them you might need to contact the school. The teacher might young/inexperienced but there might be a reasonable explanation. I presume the Industrial Revolution course hasn’t finished, in which case there will be plenty of time to cover Victorian engineering etc.
As a retired high school teacher I do find it odd that the teacher showed those photos. As a teacher, I may have shown one or two photos but not ones showing children.
It does seem bizarre.

When you say you are a historian, do you mean you are an academic attached to one of the universities, and this is your area of expertise? Not really to do with the thread (the thread is about the teacher rather than the subject matter tbh) but since hoax has been raised it would be good to know more.

I skimmed over your link, I am sorry, as the name on the link didn't look like a good source - if it is my mistake then apologies. Who is the source and what are their credentials and would you mind linking again if it is at your fingertips so that I don't have to scroll back?

There is a BBC article about the photos and whilst I wouldn't say BBC journalism is the same as it once was, I am surprised they would print something without any basis at all. Perhaps some of the photos are genuine, and some are hoaxes?

Thanks

You can't sleep because your DC's teacher showed your DCs some examples of death photography? Please get a grip