To believe a bitey puppy in a children's group is not an emotional support animal

[Thegreengreenleavesofmay]

Someone has brought a bitey puppy to a children's group and said that because they are training it to be an emotional support animal for a SEN child, they cannot legally be asked to keep it at home.

İs this true?

The puppy bit someone?

Puppies bite everything and everyone in sight, thats why they’re often called landsharks, they’re cute but a bloody nightmare.

İt kept nipping the kids who were sitting near it and had people's clothing in its mouth and was pulling on the clothing. A very young puppy.

The owner eventually came over and put it away in a dog pram and said that the kids were overwhelming it.

There is no official scheme here in The Uk as far as I am aware for emotional support animals.

Isnt there some kind of paperwork they are meant to keep with them if they are legit emotional support animals?!

Actually I'm not sure if they mean emotional support animal or assistance animal but they must mean assistance animal as they said the law is on their side.

did the puppy actually bite someone and cause injury?
it is normal for puppies to mouth and nip but I would expect the owner to keep it away from any children who were bothered by that.

No injury because the other adults kept grabbing it to pull it off the children until the owner came over and someone told her it was biting. İt was jumping up at them one by one and trying to bite. The child it's supposed to be emotionally supporting was nowhere near the dog.

Emotional support dogs do not have the same status as Assistance Dogs, so no right to public access.

Assistance dogs in Training also do not have a legal right to public access - you can ask for permission to take a dog somewhere for training, and many places will give it, but that is up to the venue/group/organisation.

You can self train an assistance dog or an emotional support dog - that doesn't change the public access situation.

For a self trained assistance dog they need to do some actual physical tasks (not simply 'be there') and you should be able to document the training and show evidence that it is done, the dog should behave well in the relevant situations and can be asked to leave a premises if the dogs behaviour is dangerous to others, even if it appears to be a fully trained assistance dog (even if its from one of the charities like Guide Dogs or Canine Partners etc!)

There is no legal paperwork or registration for an assistance dog.

What breed?

Emotional support animals have no legal status in the UK. And assistance dogs have to be trained to a certain standard, which this puppy obviously isn't.

That’s completely normal behaviour from the puppy and probably true that the children were overwhelming it.
were kids bothered/ upset or were they just excited and playing with the puppy?
I think you can ask can ask the owner to remove the puppy from your child but don’t see why the puppy can’t be there at all while it’s training.

who runs this group? Im assuming they’re happy for the puppy to be there

Thank you for clarifying it.

I think I'm just annoyed at the entitlement of it all, as someone could have got hurt, and they knew it was bitey when getting it out and leaving the children with it.

They can be legally asked to remove the puppy from the child’s group though!

This doesn't sound like appropriate training for an AD at all.

I have done early public socialisation with ADs, so we might ask permission from a venue or group and then sit in a corner with a puppy for ten minutes, pairing treats with all the noise and goings on, depending on the age we might practice a sit or a down, and then leave. 10 minutes in an environment like that is plenty.

We would NOT allow the puppy to meet and interact with people, that comes later and again in short bursts, very controlled, because no matter what task the dog will do later, ignoring people and other distractions is key. So we absolutely do NOT want them thinking public access = hurtle around greeting people, jumping about, biting, super excitement!

Border collie cross apparently.

@juneisjuly they were all just taking it in turns to gently stroke the puppy and sitting nicely near it. The owner didn't supervise even though they knew it could bite. I've no experience with puppies so didn't know they bite. As soon as it did, I removed my child who was luckily covered all over.

I don't know if the group leader is happy about it but the owner keeps saying they legally have to be allowed in with puppy. That's why I was asking for clarification.

Yeah it didn't seem to add up to me either. I just wanted clarification for myself really as felt like we were being gaslit for our kids being put in harms way in a supposedly safe space.

Utter madness.

Out of interest, how well do you usually get on with the dog owner?

I'd have told the owner to control the dog or remove it.

If the children are "overwhelming " it, protect the dog, control your fkin dog.

They have no legal rights, its a puppy, ergo it's not trained as anything. They trying to pull a fast one.

This appears to be the latest must have. When the puppy was in its pram was the person it was supposed to be 'assisting, or supporting' ok. It's a bit of a thing. Look at me. I need a special dog 🐕 often they don't

Nope, absolutely no automatic right to public access until the dog is trained, which typically wouldn't be until 18 months/2 years old (depending on breed and tasks and environment.)

A dog may be used for access before it is fully trained for every scenario - eg, I have worked with teams who were totally ready for day to day situations, supermarkets, pubs etc... at 18 months, but didn't complete training for air travel until after 2. In some cases because the dog wasn't quite ready for that, in others because it took us months to get a spot on a flight training day.

Puppies are VERY bitey and I don't start doing any 'meet people' outside my home until we're past that. Before that it is in my home or its classical conditioning (seeing people = treat from me, no contact with people at all) so I can absolutely mitigate biting, distract away, take a break etc and work without the distractions and stresses of being out in public.

Where does the law stand on a fully trained support dog and a puppy in training ? one is capable of doing the job, the other clearly isn't ? sounds like a bit too much socialisation for a young puppy ? Especially without proper supervision ?

it was the organisers that failed here op

Hardly know them, just another attendee of a group I take my child to. Always had pleasant interactions with them though.