Daughters friend physically aggressive - no more play dates?

[Solocatmum]

I’m not sure how to manage an awkward friendship situation.

I have a DD (age 4 Reception) and she has quite a wide friendship circle so we always have people over. One of our friendship group (more my friend) has a son who is a month younger but preschool as the school year cuts off between them.

He’s a nice kid underneath but highly strung and has aggressive rages if doesn’t his own way. No additional needs / known neurodiversity, but he’s been in middle of parental breakup and a bit of change (moving house/nursery). Result is his behaviour is, at times, really rather challenging.

Mum is a very gentle parent and tends to use some of the reasons for his behaviour as excuses for it. She tends to pander to / excuse the bad behaviour. It would be fine if that was just her affected by it.

Problem I have is the physical aggression towards my DD. She’s pretty stubborn not a wallflower but never physical as she’s tiny, just stubborn at times (mainly at me). If she plays up, she gets told very firmly.

I had a gathering with number of kids and parents. The kids were playing together but my DD got fed up with kids messing stuff in her room and wanted them out of her room (none of them should have been up there but I was hosting alone and sorting food etc). Anyway, as I understand it, during this my friends boy punched my DD in face and another dad chastised him and told me. I told his mum he had hit DD. She made him apologise (was forced no contrition) but she came up with excuse about some argument over the doors upstairs. I don’t think any excuse for a punch in face even if my daughter was annoying or in the wrong (other witnesses suggest not but she can be annoying and I wasn’t there so I’ll be neutral on that). Later there was also an incident in playroom with him pushing her. Again, I was in other room at time of incident but others parents commented that it was unprovoked other than dispute over toys. When I entered room I told kids to calm it and (very low tone quietly) gave the “no pushing/shoving in my house. If you are feeling annoyed please go and calm down” lecture. The kid then went full red faced angry rage and threw various toys on floor and actually at me. I felt quite stressed /nervous by the hard flying objects.

Now, I like mum very much. She’s a good sort and hasn’t had easiest time. But my DD is pretty clear she’s now not keen to play with the boy again. Frankly I don’t really want him in my house or near my DD if he’s going to get punchy. And I don’t want hard objects thrown at me.

So do I deal with the mum and land the “no more play dates/invites” message (and how do o do this - she’s a lovely and sensitive soul). Am i being too harsh to cut off play dates until he sorts his anger issues?

YANBU - no more play dates
YABU - give the kid a break

You can’t invite her to your house with her son any more it gives your Dd a terrible message.

Plus you risk her at 14 turning round and asking why you persisted in inviting a child that hurt her to her house. Likely you will have lost touch with wet mum and her violent son by then and you will kick yourself. They don’t stay 5 forever.

Be honest. Tell her that your daughter doesn't want a playdate at the moment because her son has been physically violent towards her. Your little daughter has set a boundary and that should be respected. No doubt it will be upsetting for the mother to hear but it is also a lesson - he can't go around hurting other people and expect them to want to be around him.

You are right to not want him in your home being aggressive to your daughter.
Explain that to your friend and suggest that you meet next time, one on one, at an out door playground because it could be easier for her to manage there.

She can discipline him by strapping him into the pushchair if he is aggressive though that is less likely as kid can run off steam and there are no toys to be thrown in playgrounds.

If your DD doesn't want to play with him, abide by her rules.

Also talk to your friend and ask whether any particular time of day is better for her son's moods. Does he get hangry? Over tired? Does he not like large groups?
The poor mother; I hope the little chap responds to consistant parenting and professional advice.

'No doubt it will be upsetting for the mother to hear but it is also a lesson - he can't go around hurting other people and expect them to want to be around him.'

Very true, and boy does she need to learn some lessons at the moment. Sounds like she's being far too wet and not managing his behaviour at all - she should have made him come downstairs with her after he punched your DD in the face

You're being way too considerate OP - punching another child in the face and then throwing hard objects around the room and at you is extremely serious behaviour. You've had some great suggestions for how to word it, but you need to make it clear that he will not be around your daughter for the foreseeable. This woman needs to get on top of her son's behaviour or the pair of them are in for a hell of a time

This. Exactly. Mum and kid are struggling, so to gently pount this out is best. She needs to be aware.

She knows her kids is bring physically, mum knows he used to struggle when younger with groups of people. Mum chose to leave 4 year old unsupervised, if she'd been present she could have prevented it escalating. Then when told made excuses. Her son is allowed to have his feelings, which must be tough for him,but his behaviour is not acceptable and mum needs to take steps to support him with that

I had a boy spoil my DS's birthday party with his aggression. When his lovely Mum arrived to pick him up, I said I didn't think her DS had enjoyed himself and he seemed angry about something. She told me his behaviour always deteriorated when he had spend the day with his father (the parents had split up), she was lovely about it - recognised her child was having difficulties. She actually said perhaps it would have been better that he hadn't come.
So, what I'm trying to say is, point out the poor behaviour in a way that you are concerned for the boy. And then say, perhaps it's better for playmates to cease for a while until.

I would stop the play dates but wouldn’t make a big deal of it to the mum, just don’t bother inviting them. When my son started school there was a boy he was friendly with and I thought they’d be good friends, but after a few play dates I was quite shocked about how aggressive and physical he was, including with very young children. So I didn’t invite him again and their friendship doesn’t seem to really have developed any more at school. It’s now a couple of years on and the boy is more disruptive in class and is being assessed for some sort of additional needs. At the time, I didn’t want my DS to be around that behaviour, and I’m glad I made the decision not to have him over again.

Be quite clear about why play dates are off for now.

Why do you think it's your job to gentle parent the gentle parent who doesn't seem concerned enough to firmly parent her child when he is being violent. Your daughters safety is more important than your friends feelings.

Please don't teach your daughter that she must be forgiving when a boy hits her because he cannot regulate his emotions.

I would not be rude with the mum but I would be clear and direct about why I was refusing playdates.

As sad as it may be for the boy, your daughter is not his emotional support human and punchbag. She needs to be shown that she doesn't have to put up with violence and abuse because it will make the boy feel sad if he doesn't get to play with her.

I voted YANBU.

However it doesn’t need to end your friendship.

meet without kids and/or arrange meet ups somewhere public and a large space (eg local woods) whereby its giving him the chance to walk away and run off some energy.

make it very clear anymore violence towards DD or you and you won’t be meeting up with the kids again.

Just see eachother without the kids around! I'm not sure there's a need for a message, just don't plan anything else with kids and if she suggests it, just say you want to catch up with her and cba to police the kids fighting.

Criticising someone else's child rarely goes down well

I suggest better to keep it neutral "I think best not to meet up just now. It didn't go well yesterday"

And if you want, you could add "Perhaps we could take them to the park when weather improves"

I would have no problem telling the friend that there won’t be anymore play dates until her son can learn to play nicely and without physical violence.

sounds like she’s one of these gentle (ie no discipline) parents. I couldn’t be doing with that.

This! ⬆️ Keep it simple, to the point & honest. It is what it is. You're protecting your child & are not responsible for whatever is going on with this other family.

Agreed!!! ⬆️

I had a similar situation with a new friend who I had met at baby group. Spent a lot of time together with the DC but as soon as hers turned 2 his behaviour became off the scale - think constant biting, hitting, spitting, pushing, snatching toys, hair pulling, scratching - you name it, he did it. Friend did nothing but smile at him. I stopped play dates and distanced ourselves and she was utterly oblivious as to why. So many other mums saw her DC’s behaviour and distanced themselves too.

I should have tried to tactfully tell her why, but she was the type that would take offence, so I came up with some other excuse. They moved away and the friendship never recovered. I did hear on the grapevine a couple of years ago that his behaviour is still challenging so I wonder if it was because he was never given boundaries or consequences, or there was then-undiagnosed SEN. Put your child first - friends can come and go, but your child needs you to have her back.

I'd be gently honest.
Tell her that DD was upset and scared yesterday and would rather not have any more play dates at the moment.
You can always arrange an adults only coffee.
My friend had this years ago with her friend and their sons. They just didn't gel. Play dates were always fraught and tense as the boys would frequently fight and argue. One boy would bite. In the end, they had a chat and called time on the kids meeting up and just stuck with adults. They gave it a few years and tried again and the boys (then at primary school) were absolutely fine and got on brilliantly.

Agree wholeheartedly with this.
The mum, by excusing her son's behaviour and wishy washy in dealing is not being kind as he will lose friends.
If you are clear with her and say why you don't want anymore playdates you are potentially helping her realise she needs to help her son because you are showing her what the consequences are.
If one of my friends children punched mine in the face and the mum didn't swiftly deal with it wholeheartedly and the child apologise I would be putting a stop to playdates for a while too. A punch in the face is quite a lot!

I agree, I wouldn’t have any more play dates. If you want to word it in wanky gentle parent speaks say something like “It’s obvious that [her DC] has some big emotions to deal with at the moment but your daughter is upset with having her boundaries crossed so they both need a bit of time to themselves for a while.” You could say that you’re keen to meet up in the future when things settle down if you actually are!

But beware, kids going through upheaval with gentle parenting being inflicted on them are very unlikely to get much better in my experience.

The mum might be lovely and having a hard time but she's not parenting in a way that does her DS any favours. And I say this as someone who has an ND child who can get physical and very upset, so I know how tough it is to be the person with the challenging child.

After the first incident, she should have been at his shoulder, and after the second one, it should have been home time.

I would stick to meet ups in the park, in much smaller groups, and see how things progress. It might have been that the other kids, and exciting new toys, meant everything was too much. Or maybe the kids won't get along, which is also fine. I don't think you need to preempt the next invite - just respond, "I think the playdate was a bit stressful last time; let's do the park as things are often calmer outside."

No need to make a big deal out of it and you don’t need to raise it with her. I wouldn’t be inviting him over or spending time together with the kids. If she questions it you can be honest about the reason .

Sounds like it’s someone else’s turn to host you anyway if you have hosted the whole group.

If everyone stays calm and firm it doesn’t need to leave to a falling out. Had lovely evening out on Fri in big group our kids all on gap years / university now but have over the years bashed / bitten / /hit/ been friends / been teenage mean girls to each other but we are all still friends!

I would go with one of the previous suggestions, there are a few good ones. I actually think it’s quite kind to the mum to point out his behaviour is unacceptable and will stop him from being invited to things. It might make her realise it’s loosing him friends and she needs to nip that behaviour in the bud.

I’d prefer being told that my daughter was being unreasonable and look at my parenting/her behaviour than my child start school and not have any friends because they are a bit of a twit.

Don't invite them over. Your daughter shouldn't be forced to play with someone if she doesn't want to anyway. If you like the mum, invite her over on her own for coffee etc. or go to a cafe. If she brings it up, just tell her the truth - your daughter doesn't want to play with her son at the moment because he hurts her.