To feel annoyed my friends blase attitude

[Queenofkittens]

This isn't your typical thread where my friend has done or said something shitty on a hen do or something like that, but more her blase attitude to money that for some reason annoys me and to be honest I am quite jealous of and I need someone to tell me if I'm being unreasonable or they can relate.

Basically we are quite similar in our finances in that we both have a semi detached house, both have two children each and a husband. Both work part time with husbands that work full time. They earn more than us as her husband is a higher earner by about 20k extra a year. What gets me is that me and my OH watch every penny, we often have to say no to our children for things, we can't go abroad (but we can have British holidays) we don't buy ourselves anything 'nice' and we budget so we don't spiral in debt. Other than our mortgage we have zero debt and that includes no overdrafts/credit cards. Both cars paid off (but they are old cars) and it feels like every month we just get by and tbh it's getting us down.

Fiend on the other hand has various debts, 4 credit cards (that I'm aware of) which equate to 22k, two other drafts and money owed to both their parents. But the spending is unreal, new clothes, days out for the kids, kids spoilt with everything designer/branded no expense spared, and my eldest will soften say 'oh they're so lucky they are so rich, josh just got a brand new hoody etc and I want to say, actually they are skint it's not real! But obviously I wouldn't, but it makes me feel inadequate and perhaps we should be 'living' more like they are? They've just taken out another loan to pay for a holiday abroad to Dubai soon and I can't help but feel jealous but also slightly aghast at all the careless spending. Is this.what most people do? Are we in the ones in the wrong and being boring and should live a little or is the shit gonna hit the fan for them at some point?

The thing is who knows if she is living on credit? My friends have no idea of my financial business, because I don't tell them.

Fiend on the other hand has various debts……..Freudian slip @Queenofkittens - this made me chuckle.

But basically what @CalypsoCuthbertson said.

You will never know the full details of their finances so leave them to it. Yes they might be taking out credit cards and loans, but maybe they also put money into savings and then pay it all off and have calculated the interest gained from savings outweighs the loan/credit card rates.

It sounds like you are jealous of them, so either follow a similar suit and think about whether you could go abroad, treat yourselves more or be satisfied that you are secure with your finances and not pushing things.

Your friend is bonkers to be so cavalier with debt but it is none of your business.
Stop sharing your private affairs.
If things get unstuck for her you may well find she will come to you for support and it could get very awkward.

You have different attitudes to money. I would rather be debt free and even save for a rainy day than buy things I can’t afford. Horses for courses.
Whatever you do , don’t ever go on a trip/ holiday with them as you have such different attitudes to money . You are not compatible.

I somewhat agree with the pp who said life is for living. I have two teens. Maybe 4-5 years max before they won't want to come on holiday with me and will be earning their own living, so I use 0% credit to cover a holiday most years, ensure they can pursue hobbies, have a few days out every school holiday that includes a sit down meal and dessert. I have a house with a mortgage but that has a decent amount of equity. I have a great pension that I've been paying into for thirty years. I have critical illness and life insurance. I don't want to look back on these years (or have them look back) and have nothing much to remember. They dont have expensive phones or clothes or anything remotely "flash" to show off but they will have memories and beyond the primary years it's harder to do that without spending money..not impossible of course, we have plenty of time sat together watching something or playing a board game but we're not hikers or bikers or generally "outdoorsy" types so it tends to be things with an entry fees or travel costs. In the end everyone has their own priorities and approach to life..as long a she's not asking to borrow from you, I'd leave her to.it and assess if you are actually happy with your own approach.

It really is nothing to do with you how other people manage their finances. If you want to live less parsimoniously, find a way to do it. You say you work PT — find a FT job? Retrain to earn more?

Assuming their financial situation is exactly what you think it is (eg no inheritance/income you don't know about) then they'll be paying for this at some point down the line. Eg will be paying their mortgage off later, retiring later, having a poorer/less secure retirement......that could just be my age talking! (Late 40s) But I approach finances the way you do.

20k pa extra isn't actually as much as some people think. They'll probably only see half of that after tax/NI. So £800 a month. After servicing debt,car loans, and discretionary spending they'll be worse off than you i can almost guarantee. stick to to your guns OP. Do you follow Dave Ramsey? He has a lot to say about this sort of thing.

I have some friends who needed to be housed in domestic violence shelters and some who own several valuable properties. A broader friendship group makes you realise that everyone is different and making comparisons is a waste of time. My kids know that some of their mates will have gone skiing this Easter holiday and some will gone to their mum's cleaning job.

Look after your own money and values, let other people live how they want.

edited to be politer

If you have been as honest with each other as you say then you can be reasonably confident that they are accumulating debt. Maybe atm they are shuffling it around on zero interest credit cards or using bonuses to help pay some of it off. Unless you are jealous of the idea of having ever-increasing debt that will eventually become unmanageable without remortgaging etc then you need to just be happy that you are not following suit.

I see people like this all the time at my son's school. Driving EVs, wearing expensive brands and I know they're doing it on credit. I drive a old car and am a budget shopper but am financially very OK. He has private tuition (has SEN) and I save for that as well as trying to be astute about my financial future.

I think it's just very different values. I think they're daft blowing money, but equally maybe they wonder what I'm saving for.

I once had a friend who said she just made sure she could afford the minimum payment on all her debts. Even then I thought she was nuts.

It sounds like you are jealous of them, so either follow a similar suit and think about whether you could go abroad, treat yourselves more or be satisfied that you are secure with your finances and not pushing things.

Good advice - continue to cut your cloth to suit your size.

Also as I always say you never really know people. They may have for example, inheritance that they have kept quiet; bank of mum and dad...

The op said that they were open with each other about their finances.

None of your business and children need to learn that not everyone can afford/have the same things.

The vibe I'm getting is that her spending is aimed at showing off - so YANBU in that behaviour is just annoying.

Can you pull back from spending time with her? Join a book club to make new friends/ or something similar that better reflects your principles and interests.

And feel reassured you are raising your children to be financially responsible.

Personally I'd also explain to DD that much of their spending is likely to be funded by credit and why you chose not to live that way.

And how do you intend to pay it off?

I have friends who are millionaires and friends on UC. I neither care nor am I jealous or judgemental of what they have or how they spend their money. I can only take care of myself and ensure my own finances are as I want them.

Some people do live like that and they might never change. Daft of you to compare though especially as you know they are in debt.

You could die tomorrow. Enjoy your life. No one wants to be miserable. It’s only money

If what she says is true then she sounds very foolish and a bit stupid. You should feel sorry for her not jealous.

I would stop discussing money with her. It’s never a good idea to discuss finances. DH and I are pretty frugal. No one would have any idea that we have paid off our mortgage and are very comfortable. That suits me just fine.

I always wonder how people with credit card debt eventually settle it. Surely you never want less, at some point you'd want to retire, or do you roll on and on until you die?

We once paid off £22k of credit card debt. It was a unique set of circumstances that led to it building up, and we paid it off by increasing our incomes significantly. Have never used credit since.

I paid off off the money I owed from part of my lump sum when I took my pension. I’ve got absolutely no regrets - I enjoyed myself buying what I wanted and have never been a financial burden to anyone. If I build up debts again, then they can be repaid out of my estate when I die. I’d much rather look at a couple of lovely new dresses and pairs of shoes than look at the balance of my savings account!

@Queenofkittens I don’t think it has to be in a gossipy way but you could explain to your child that you prefer to not have credit card and other debt and to live on money you have, but other people are comfortable or at least less anxious with a certain level of debt. I remember my Dad explaining to me about credit cards when I was about 12. This was a long time ago when there were fewer providers, although you could get credit at places like Dixons at high interest. Neither you or friend is wrong. It’s also worth talking about trying to put some money aside in case of unexpected expenses. And that lots of things ‘on tick’ can add up to too many small payments leaving no disposable income, but some things are better off paid monthly such as utility bills.