Single sex toilets in leisure centres

NeedToChangeName · 2025-04-20T11:51:49+00:00

My local authority leisure centre allows TW to use single sex female toilets and changing rooms I queried this, following recent Supreme Court judgement They said they follow guidance from UK Active, found here [[https://www.ukactive.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Transgender-Guidance-22-11-2022.pdf https://www.ukactive.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Transgender-Guidance-22-11-2022.pdf]] I have contacted UK Active, urging them to update their guidance I encourage you to do the same

Original poster

NeedToChangeName · 20/04/2025 17:23

Any thoughts on this?

OP posts:

helpfulperson · 20/04/2025 18:10

I'm sure all organisations who provide guidance covering this topic are currently reviewing to ensure compliance with the judgement. However the judgement doesn't suddenly mean that any spaces such as toilets must exclude transwomen. It allows places to have single sex areas (which actually always was the case). All the leisure centre would need to do would be to declare there toilets single gender.

Don't get me wrong I don't agree penis people should be in ladies toilets but it isn't the quick fix many are portraying it as.

BallerinaRadio · 20/04/2025 18:11

NeedToChangeName · 20/04/2025 17:23

Any thoughts on this?

Yes, over multiple threads over multiple days. We get it. 🙄

lifeturnsonadime · 20/04/2025 18:12

Write to them and copy in to your MP. The judgement is clear. This needs to stop now.

BallerinaRadio · 20/04/2025 18:13

People are frothing at the mouth sending letters, sending emails, urging everyone else to do the same... I feel sorry for the workers having to deal with this barrage

ChompinCrocodiles · 20/04/2025 18:14

All the leisure centre would need to do would be to declare there toilets single gender

Eh?

That's not a thing.

Their facilities can either be single sex or unisex. That's it.

Natsku · 20/04/2025 18:20

I would give them time. If they haven't corrected their policies by the end of the month then its time to complain.

Original poster

NeedToChangeName · 20/04/2025 18:22

ChompinCrocodiles · 20/04/2025 18:14

All the leisure centre would need to do would be to declare there toilets single gender

Eh?

That's not a thing.

Their facilities can either be single sex or unisex. That's it.

Yes, if they will continue to allow TW to use these toilets, they should be labelled as mixed sex

OP posts:

MyLimeBear · 25/04/2025 13:30

ChompinCrocodiles · 20/04/2025 18:14

All the leisure centre would need to do would be to declare there toilets single gender

Eh?

That's not a thing.

Their facilities can either be single sex or unisex. That's it.

"single-gender" toilets don't really work legally though, do they. If I say I don't have a gender-identity because I don't have that "feeling", I only have a biological sex (and no one can tell me what my gender-identity is based on my biological sex - that's what the gender-identity ideology says), then the centre doesn't provide a toilet for me.

ToBeOrNotToBee · 25/04/2025 13:31

Ask them in UK Active will be paying their legal bills.

1BodyProblem · 25/04/2025 13:35

Anyone saying that have to change everything is wrong. It is up to private companies how they classify their changing rooms / bathrooms. All the SC ruling does is say that if a company wants to say this area is for cis women/ people born female only then that is in their right.

OchonAgusOchonOh · 25/04/2025 13:39

helpfulperson · 20/04/2025 18:10

I'm sure all organisations who provide guidance covering this topic are currently reviewing to ensure compliance with the judgement. However the judgement doesn't suddenly mean that any spaces such as toilets must exclude transwomen. It allows places to have single sex areas (which actually always was the case). All the leisure centre would need to do would be to declare there toilets single gender.

Don't get me wrong I don't agree penis people should be in ladies toilets but it isn't the quick fix many are portraying it as.

If they declare them single gender would that not be discriminatory on the grounds of sex as they would be allowing some people of a particular sex in but not others?

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 25/04/2025 13:49

1BodyProblem · 25/04/2025 13:35

Anyone saying that have to change everything is wrong. It is up to private companies how they classify their changing rooms / bathrooms. All the SC ruling does is say that if a company wants to say this area is for cis women/ people born female only then that is in their right.

Incorrect. To provide toilets or changing rooms that are separated in some manner you have to use the single sex exemptions - that automatically excludes transwomen from the female spaces. You can not legally assign a changing room to a single gender as it would not be proportionate for a changing room.

The options are single sex or mixed sex only

Eggtoastie · 25/04/2025 13:57

1BodyProblem · 25/04/2025 13:35

Anyone saying that have to change everything is wrong. It is up to private companies how they classify their changing rooms / bathrooms. All the SC ruling does is say that if a company wants to say this area is for cis women/ people born female only then that is in their right.

No, this is incorrect

BelfastBard · 25/04/2025 14:01

1BodyProblem · 25/04/2025 13:35

Anyone saying that have to change everything is wrong. It is up to private companies how they classify their changing rooms / bathrooms. All the SC ruling does is say that if a company wants to say this area is for cis women/ people born female only then that is in their right.

No. This is patently untrue.
If a space is designated as single sex, then it must be single sex, as in biological sex. There is no recourse for an organisation to say they themselves permit trans women to use their female toilets, because they’d be breaking the law in doing so.

1BodyProblem · 25/04/2025 14:02

BelfastBard · 25/04/2025 14:01

No. This is patently untrue.
If a space is designated as single sex, then it must be single sex, as in biological sex. There is no recourse for an organisation to say they themselves permit trans women to use their female toilets, because they’d be breaking the law in doing so.

Show quote history

Companies can absolutely say mens changing rooms / "others" or vice versa

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 25/04/2025 14:02

helpfulperson · 20/04/2025 18:10

I'm sure all organisations who provide guidance covering this topic are currently reviewing to ensure compliance with the judgement. However the judgement doesn't suddenly mean that any spaces such as toilets must exclude transwomen. It allows places to have single sex areas (which actually always was the case). All the leisure centre would need to do would be to declare there toilets single gender.

Don't get me wrong I don't agree penis people should be in ladies toilets but it isn't the quick fix many are portraying it as.

Wrong. Single gender isn't a thing, legally speaking.

There is single sex or mixed sex. That's it.

Namechangetry · 25/04/2025 14:05

Yes I had another crack at the organisers of my town's 'women only' swimming session this week. They had no clue what the ruling means and said they didn't have to change their 'inclusive' definition of 'women' because 'no cis women have complained'!

It'll take time to get places complying with the law, especially when there are moves around to confuse eg previous posts that you can have 'single gender' or 'women and transwomen', or that it doesn't apply to private companies. The law applies to everyone, and if you call something women's/female/ladies/single sex, that means sex not gender.

Catopia · 25/04/2025 14:12

You realise that the consequence of mass complaints is likely to be that the leisure centre moves to unisex changing rooms, as many already have? It really goes down to whether you want to have one or two people who are likely to be harmless/more afraid of people looking at them than they are interested in looking at you in the changing room, or just have a free for all.

Namechangetry · 25/04/2025 14:16

Catopia · 25/04/2025 14:12

You realise that the consequence of mass complaints is likely to be that the leisure centre moves to unisex changing rooms, as many already have? It really goes down to whether you want to have one or two people who are likely to be harmless/more afraid of people looking at them than they are interested in looking at you in the changing room, or just have a free for all.

And then thet can be taken to court for indirect discrimination against women, as women are more likely to need single sex changing rooms than men and so are more disadvantaged than men if you make things mixed sex.

PS got any receipts for 'likely to be harmless?'

PPS , 'shut up and let the men in dresses in or you'll be forced to change in front of all the men and then you'll be sorry' isn't a great look.

TeenToTwenties · 25/04/2025 14:17

Catopia · 25/04/2025 14:12

You realise that the consequence of mass complaints is likely to be that the leisure centre moves to unisex changing rooms, as many already have? It really goes down to whether you want to have one or two people who are likely to be harmless/more afraid of people looking at them than they are interested in looking at you in the changing room, or just have a free for all.

So if men can't have exactly what they want they will ruin it for everyone?

And people wonder why men aren't wanted in women's single sex spaces.

Jewel1968 · 25/04/2025 14:23

I could be wrong but I don't think a commercial organisation is required to provide single sex spaces. I think building regulations do require new builds and refurbished buildings to provide single sex toilets if space allows. If however an organisation does prove single sex spaces then they can enforce the use of that space in line with SC judgement.

I think other service providers might be required to provide separate single sex spaces and I think schools might also have to.

SaladSandwichesForTea · 25/04/2025 14:24

Catopia · 25/04/2025 14:12

You realise that the consequence of mass complaints is likely to be that the leisure centre moves to unisex changing rooms, as many already have? It really goes down to whether you want to have one or two people who are likely to be harmless/more afraid of people looking at them than they are interested in looking at you in the changing room, or just have a free for all.

A free for all isn't a viable business model.

Many people would rather not use a leisure centre than use mixed sex facilities.

Namechangetry · 25/04/2025 14:25

Jewel1968 · 25/04/2025 14:23

I could be wrong but I don't think a commercial organisation is required to provide single sex spaces. I think building regulations do require new builds and refurbished buildings to provide single sex toilets if space allows. If however an organisation does prove single sex spaces then they can enforce the use of that space in line with SC judgement.

I think other service providers might be required to provide separate single sex spaces and I think schools might also have to.

Do you think private companies don't have to pay the minimum wage either? The law is the law, either it's completely mixed sex (and a mixed sex shared changing room would clearly be illegal indirect discrimination against women) or it's divided by biology.

SaladSandwichesForTea · 25/04/2025 14:27

SaladSandwichesForTea · 25/04/2025 14:24

A free for all isn't a viable business model.

Many people would rather not use a leisure centre than use mixed sex facilities.

Show quote history

I mean viable given the ruling and bringing the whole issue out into the open.

Many years ago, noone would have been thinking about who is in the changing room but risks have increased and people are pushing back. Even gender neutral or private changing rooms are more vulnerable than female only.

https://www.womensrights.network/post/leisure-centres-putting-women-and-girls-at-riskpress-release

Leisure Centres – Putting Women and Girls at Risk | Women's Rights Network | UK

Almost one-third of UK leisure centres have no single-sex changing areas for swimming pool users putting women and girls at increased risk of voyeurism and sexual assault, an investigation by Women’s Rights Network (WRN) has revealed.Freedom of Informa...

https://www.womensrights.network/post/leisure-centres-putting-women-and-girls-at-riskpress-release