How do I help my friend? (SC ruling related)

[CanYouTurnItDown]

AIBU to blatantly misuse AIBU to ask, how do we stop the insanity arising from the SC ruling.

Sensibly applied it means that those men who have misused the legislation (if that’s the right word) around self ID to have access to vulnerable women can no longer do that, and that crime statistics are going to be more representative, but the reality is that now women who don’t fit the cliched version of a woman are being challenged and kicked out of ladies toilets and changing rooms.

Why is it that my friend who has never hurt anyone has been challenged today, after years of dealing with the stigma around being a gay, non feminine woman, who thought the world was changing, now has to go through this shit again.

It’s so hard, something needed to change, but that change is damaging so many people.

It confuses you that being challenged because you don’t look feminine enough and possibly asked to leave if you don’t have ID with you, is upsetting for someone?

Was she upset all these years when TRA's said that butch lesbians were really men? How about how can you be same sex attracted when sex doesn't even matter? Trans ideology is all about stereotypes. As others have said, she can carry her driving licence if challenged. Lesbians, even in dungarees and with short hair do not look like men. They look like women with short hair.

How is it that on this thread everyone is saying masc presenting women should be fine about being challenged and carded, but anytime someone posts a blue badge thread there's uproar at someone being questioned about their disability? Are we choosing which sectors of society have to prove themselves and which don't?

I can't speak for anyone else on this thread but I've never seen or posted on a thread about blue badges, I'm assuming you mean it's the same posters on both?

It isn't fine that for a number of years transwomen have been in women's spaces and now it is clear they shouldn't be some are stating they will still use them. So the social contract has been broken (by men) leaving people like the OP's friend the collateral damage that women are now more in doubt.

@GardenGaff I don't tend to pay attention to whose posting on which threads. However I do find it odd that usually people are outraged at the idea someone was asked if they were disabled, but it's seemingly ok to challenge someone about whether they're a 'real woman'. I find it horrible that people on here seem to celebrating that's the world we're now living in, and that those affected are 'collateral damage'.

I suspect it's because one is about a sense that somebody's getting a free perk at Tesco's and one's about a fear of sexual assault.

I feel for your friend, OP. I’ve also felt for non-feminine-looking women over the past few years, as men started invading women’s spaces and women started becoming wary of anyone who looked like a man. Previously there was no reason to be suspicious.

Few women had the confidence to challenge them, since we were not allowed to ask to see a GRC. But the men’s presence destroyed the safety and comfortable atmosphere — and made life harder for women who didn’t conform to sexist stereotypes.

We now have the legal right to challenge male interlopers, and I hope the crybullies leave us in peace.

I hope things go back to normal soon and no more women fall under suspicion. But this is completely the fault of the men. I never previously turned a hair if a masculine-looking woman came into the toilets or changing room.

I feel so sorry for your friend, but you and she have the fetishistic men to ‘thank’ for that, not that it helps.

I think it will die down quite quickly; tho I know we will still be ‘clocking’ TiMs in the Ladies’, but they’re now taking a bigger risk.

For me, the big ‘win’ will be keeping the men out of women’s prisons, changing rooms, women’s wards, shortlists etc (hopefully).

The WC thing will take longer.

Just how many toilets has your friend been kicked out of since the ruling?

I've never seen this in real life and I'm suspicious about all these alleged incidents that are suddenly happening women don't turn aggressive and challenge people overnight 🤔

I hope all those posters who just think someone should carry ID end up experiencing being accused of being a man in a woman's space. Maybe if they experienced that they would have more empathy.

But on the bright side lesbian groups no longer have to include men.

I'm sure I'll get flamed but I think it's an unfortunate byproduct of trans women being allowed in women's toilets. Prior to this being a big thing I expect people may have thought "oh, a masculine looking woman." Now it's "they must be trans."

Your friend should practice the phrase "fuck off, I have a vagina" for the next time she's asked.

It’s completely because of that and she recognises that and has done for some time.

And in answer to a question lower down, it happened today and she told us then, so presumably just one.

Does anyone know a butch lesbian who is sooooooo butch she would be challenged? Naaah unless she’s 6 feet tall and 200 lbs with a 5 o’clock shadow and bald. We all know what a woman is even a butch one

Of course not. Doesn’t happen.

Any need to be so aggressive?
The fuck off is hardly necessary (assuming this ever actually happens)

Androgynous people of both sexes, LGB people, women, we're all just collateral damage to this aggressive male supremacist movement. The blue haired flag waving pronoun enforcers can just skip back off to wherever they came from, and leave us to deal with their mess.

Though I note the amazing number of both extremely tall, muscly transmen and butch lesbians who various posters have amongst their acquaintance this week. Most humans, especially women, are really good at telling sex. It's not just size or haircut its gait, stance, hands, loads of things which we aren't even conscious that we notice. So I hope and believe that anyone who challenges your friend will quickly realise their mistake.

Believe what you want, I wasn’t there but I have no reason to doubt her.

I posted in good faith because I’m conflicted and want to help. I have no need to make stuff up on the internet, I have a lot going on in real life 🤣

I feel sorry for what the OP's friend is experiencing. But it's just one of the many ways women are judged on appearance.

I don’t necessarily agree that the SC ruling has made people more homophobic. I genuinely believe that the ruling has given people the opportunity / courage to speak out more and to stand up for their rights (as women). Until now, almost everyone accepted that the sex based rights referred to in the Equality Act were biological sex and that human sex was binary and immutable. The likes of Stonewall made many who didn’t fall for gender identity woo woo too afraid to speak out because, if you did, you were a bigot and a transphobe and in some workplaces people could get into trouble. I will be very interested to see what happens in my own workplace - there'll be a fair amount of reverse ferreting by some very senior people (I hope).

Whenever anyone says “they just need to do xyz..” to avoid facing prejudice and discrimination it shows how privileged they are not to have experienced it. I really feel for your friend - that’s awful that she’s been challenged like that.

this!!

a man dressed in a woman’s clothing is all they are until they’ve had all the surgery and do not pose as a man in the private areas etc.

i would not feel comfortable for myself or my daughter in spaces like toilets etc if a man dressed as a woman came in. They have 0 right and as women we have fought for OUR rights for many many years and shouldn’t need to again.

I hope the hysteria calms. It was a sensible ruling but should come with compassion. There are so many vulnerable people trying to navigate this change and shouting at them when they are hurting, is not the humane way forward. I truly believe that identifying as a gender different to birth should be labelled with trans before woman or man - this helps with understanding. There are so many trans people who genuinely mean no harm, but like the “not all men” statement it’s “not all trans women” but some mean harm and therefore we have to legislate accordingly. The reasons for single sex spaces is because “not all men…” so the reason exists for protection against those trans women who mean harm. That doesn’t mean trans people don’t need protection too. It’s not either or.

Yes, there's entirely the need to be aggressive. Women do not need to produce ID (or some other such "solution" being suggested here) to strangers in public bathrooms. A sharp response might stop someone from going through life thinking it's ok to question someone else like that.