Trans women are still women

[Lostcat]

AIBU to share what the Supreme Court judgement on the meaning of women in the Equalities Act does and does not do/say/mean.

Although there are now moves to take the ruling and embed discrimination against trans women into uk law, this was not the intention of the Supreme Court judgement. In fact, the judges made it very explicit that politicians, media and activists shouldn’t seek to weaponise the judgement for political gain. Unfortunately that is exactly what people (including a whole host of mumsnetters) are doing.

So what does the judgement do?

Myth: the UK Supreme Court says trans women are not women

Myth: the ruling means trans women can’t claim legal protection as women

Myth: the ruling says you can ban trans women from women’s loos or other women only spaces

What the ruling actually says:
“It is not the role of the court to adjudicate on the arguments in the public domain on the meaning of gender or sex, nor is it to define the meaning of the word ‘woman’ other than when it is used in the provisions of the [Equality Act] 2010.”

The ruling says that in sex-based provisions under the Equalities Act 2010, sex means “biological sex” and refers to one of two biological sexes.

The ruling reiterates that trans women are protected from sex discrimination as women - because they experience the same sexism as women do.

The ruling affirms also that trans people are protected under the law from discrimination on the basis of gender reassignment.

As before (and as the law has stated since 2004) trans women, with or without a Gender Recognition Certificate, should be treated as women and given access to the relevant women’s services - as before, an exception may be made under limited circumstances where the need to exclude trans women may be proportionate (the law gives women’s refuges as an example of a space where this may be necessary, sometimes).

The ruling merely states that in legal references to “sex” the words “man” and “woman” in the sex discrimination clauses of the equalities act refer to “biological” women and men - it is merely about the use of language in legal cases of discrimination.

The very real impact of this on trans and non-binary people’s lives comes from misinterpretations of what is meant or intended by the ruling.
The trans community is fearful because of the inevitable spin manufactured by biased news media and the powerful gender critical lobby (including wealthy and high profile people such as JK Rowling who claim they are “silenced” by trans advocates).

Aaanndd there's the homophobia. Took long enough

I gave no methods Boggins. It's female instinct, not method.

Why should any woman playing in a women's chess tournament be expected to play against a man with all his male entitlement and higher levels of testosterone?

what?

Perhaps you should direct that to PP who I was quoting.

I agree and interestingly it’s something my husband doesn’t have.
I wonder if it’s something women are born with, a natural protection thing.

What does this have to do with unambiguously XY men who believe they are entitled to be in women's spaces because gender?

@Lostcat No problem here. I understand the judgement. I know what the law is and has always been. And you are wrong.

I’m not going to debate you because

1. I’m not doing the work for you - I’m not your mum
2. there are other clever pps telling you facts that you aren’t reading - no point in adding to it
3. it’s a sunny day - I’m going out to enjoy it

Have a good day, everyone.

Stonewall UK created this ridiculous situation with the introduction of the word "transwomen" to cover everyone from post op transsexuals to fetishistic transvestites.
Post op TS actually made the effort to blend in and NOT be discovered but the transvestites, emboldened by the ridiculous concept of "Self ID," started appearing in women's spaces due to Stonewall's stupid "Diversity Champions" scheme misrepresenting the law.
That is how we ended up with the utterly ridiculous and dangerous situation of men to being locked up in women's prisons just by saying "I am a woman."

only eyes needed @Bogginsthe3rd, it's not ridiculous tbf, it's so obvious.

It's not homophobic for my female instinct to recognise without being told that a man is gay. And despite your comment Gaydar is not something I turn on or off or up or down. It just is.

Well this is the issue isn't it. Transexuals don't care about making biological women feel unsafe or uncomfortable. They only care about being 'accepted' in women's spaces to reaffirm their own delusions.

The Ruling said that any facility or service that identifies itself for women (women's toilet, women's changing room, women's refuge) is exclusively for use only by female XX people, now known as women. The ruling covers girls, too, so a girls school is now only permitted to admit girls. Otherwise it becomes a mixed-sex school.

I think we'd get into very muddy waters if the definition of the term woman for the Equality Act 2010 was deemed not to extend to other references to women in the rest of the law, but if that's how they want to play it we'll just deal with a load of court cases and defeat them all.

What are you confused by?

The temerity of women to want anything for themselves that doesn't include men?

It was @DrudgeJedd calling you that

Transwomen (aka men) can still pretend to be women.

They can call themselves, Great Aunt Jane; have their genitals cut off; wave a certificate; wear a Playtex bra stuffed with chicken fillets; thread flowers in their hair; dress head to foot in Laura Ashley; have a collection of lipsticks or anything else that they think is the essence of womanhood.

Yes, they can still pretend to be a woman.

What they can't be is be a woman because , you know, they're a man.

Nice for them to dress up and pretend but that's your lot, mate.

You are so right @SorryAuntLydia

Clearly
OP isn’t listening

Ask a question
Get the answer…….multiple times

Honestly how confusing can such a simple thing be.
Enjoy the sun, wish we had some !

I think it must be - probably a survival mechanism from cave-dwelling days. Interestingly I'm much worse at spotting lesbians.

Why wouldn't schools be covered by this? Children are of male sex or female sex. There aren't even any GRCs to muddy the waters, as kids can't have GRCs. Yes, the ruling has defined sex - it means biological sex, not gender. I don't see the issue.

Yes they are. Schools are required to abide by the Public Sector Equality Duty and consider the impact of their policies and decisions on individuals with protected characteristics. They must aim to eliminate discrimination, promote equality and foster good relations between groups.
It's why transactivists being allowed to demonstrate coercive control tactics on children in order to bully girls out of their rights to safety, privacy & dignity has been catastrophic. Especially for the most emotionally / mentally vulnerable who are easy prey to social contagion.

It's been an unforgivable dereliction of responsibility by adults in schools where transactivism has been allowed to run amok.

Calling you Boggins. I think the dialled-up comment you made was very homophobic

Edited to say turned up, not dialled up

If the person concerned still has a penis so is demonstrably male why would they be in any danger using the male changing room?

Believe me I blame stonewall for a lot!

I agree that seems to be the situation, but I think it’s sad. I think there should be a way for ‘women and trans women’ to gather and build bridges. We do have some common ground even though pregnancy, childbirth, menopause etc obviously isn’t part of that and shouldn’t be. Hopefully now the issue of protecting single sex spaces has been clarified there can be space made for this again.

I’d feel safer allowing transwomen into my spaces socially knowing that if we ever went on a group trip single sex sleeping arrangements would be the norm for example and I think a lot of women would feel the same.

I think trans rights need their own law which addresses these issues.

Your gaydar can't be adjusted. Got it.

Which is exactly why anyone using womens spaces will now definitely be a threat. Even if it’s just because they want to make a stand! ( ie: the nice ones wouldn’t be there )
They can’t be there by law So
We now have rights to protect ourselves from invading non women.

Nope you're the one talking about "gaydar", being able to recognise someone's sex doesn't require the use of outdated stereotypes about homosexually