AIBU to think getting into teaching should be easier?

[LavenderFields7]

My friend has a PhD in stem, is trying to get into teaching A-levels at local school but everywhere wants PGCE. AIBU to think it’s ridiculous to want someone so qualified to have to study another year, fork out £10,000 and work unpaid for a year? She has a Level 3 teaching qualification and has taught uni level students.

I don't think people really appreciate the skills that teachers have to learn, until they try to do it. Not only that, the way lessons are constructed changes.

When I first started teaching over 20 years ago, I thought it would be like when I was in school: I would talk about poems, then students would write a bit.

Oh, the shock I got! You never stop learning your craft when you're teaching, no matter how good your subject knowledge.

I did smile when I saw that your friend just wants to teach A Level: don't we all?!

Well, I don't know how he manages the school or how well it performs, so I can't judge.
I just think it's poor that any school of any kind would appoint someone without a teaching qualification. That's just my opinion.

People don't understand, @TheMoth . Hence some of the threads about schools and teachers on here.

A-Level teaching is often highly sought after in a school and lots in each department wanting to do it. Therefore schools need people to teach the whole ability range and not just A-Levels and that’s where the training comes in. Unless it’s an A-level only subject and even then you can end up covering or having a lower school tutor group. There’s a variety of training options out there, some will pay and you can do on the job. Most schools whether private or state will want you to do a teaching qualification alongside. It sounds like your friend hasn’t really researched the options properly.
Sixth form colleges are different again, but most teaching traditional A-Levels will have teaching qualifications, for example Maths, you may also need to teach GCSE re-takes, Science foundation level courses etc.

She’d have been better spending her time and money on PGSE than a phd

She can do Teach First, surely?

Surely lockdown demonstrated that teaching is a skill that needs to be learnt! I've a professional job and am educated but goodness I couldn't teach for toffee - DC will confirm that. Home education during covid was a nightmare!

If she wants to get into teaching sten subjects most of them are offering a bursary of 27k tax free to learn. There couldn't be a better time. Because it is tax free they will get more money training than they will in their first year teaching.

Stem!

its Important that teachers are qualified in teaching.
your friend is not.
However secondary stem subject PGCEs are usually have massive bursarys.

Had this person able to complete a phd really done so little research they don’t understand that it wouldn’t cost them 10,000.

I don’t know why the teaching profession is so undervalued in this country, but it speaks volumes that even people who want to do it think it’s not with training for.

This!⬆️

Teaching is so much more than just knowing about something that you can then tell someone else!

We need to worry more about how we retain the brilliant teachers we have within the education system, not make it easy for just anyone to do it!!

💯

You can be an expert on a subject but that does not give you the ability to be able to know how to 'teach' the subject. This is why the profession is often slated, you need much more that great subject knowledge (whilst that is also key) to be an effective teacher. You don't just pitch up, speak at the children and Ta da! they have learnt something. The PGCE is the theory side of teaching, whilst the QTS is gained through the practical side. You can train to teach without PGCE but you will need QTS to be able to teach, this can be achieved through Schools Direct etc but will still have an element of the theory behind educating children, usually through a partner University or their own approved provider.

You can train on the job. We have had several members of staff who have worked at our school while having a day out each week to do their QTS programme. However, they had all already worked with us for several years (as TAs or Nursery Nurses) and we knew they would make good teachers. We wouldn't take someone on with no teaching experience to do that, unless as a TA. Though taking on a TA role is one way of gaining some experience before eventually becoming a teacher.

I’m pleased I posted on here. I’ve just put a post on secondary education asking for advice as this got me thinking. Thank you for that. It’s hard to know if I’m being OTT and getting too involved so it’s good to get perspective. DC is going GCSE but goes to show teaching isn’t for everyone.

This will bells on.

A PHD is largely irrelevant - you're teaching 14yr olds. They don't need that level of expertise. What they do need is someone who has been explicitly taught the principles of differentiation, how to question effectively, methodologies of assessment, an understanding of learning barriers and how to support students with complex learning needs.

My undergrad in English is relevant and I draw on it a lot in teaching. My PGDE and masters in education is what makes me an effective practitioner.

It's actually quite insulting to teachers to assume anyone with subject knowledge can teach.

First reply nailed it. Not everyone can teach. It’s a skill that needs to be qualified.

You're not being OTT, you're being a good parent.
.Sorry, I thought the A* grade meant they are doing A levels.
I would definitely set up a meeting with the Head of Subject and/or Head of KS4. I always want to be informed about this, and it helps us to manage poorer teachers out. Something definitely needs to be put in place to improve matters.
Please use "lack of feedback" as part of your evidence, that is very problematic.

My XH was very well qualified in maths. He decided he wanted to be a teacher. I (who worked in a school with teachers ever day) tried tactfully to tell him that he didn't have what it took to teach. He was diffident to the point of invisibility, had a very quiet voice and hated conflict in any form and couldn't organise himself at all. He was adamant that he was going to be a teacher.

He was thrown off the PGCE.

This is just to illustrate that you can be very intelligent and know your subject backwards, but you need more than that to be a teacher.

In the past I have dealt with trainees who, while they had a great undergrad degree, couldn’t teach for toffee and ended up failing their PGCE. I also have friends with PHDs who work in academia who acknowledge they prefer research and teaching is not for them.
Getting into teaching should not be easy as already there are many people who do it who aren’t suited but unis are quite happy to take their money.

I'm really good at driving. It doesn't mean I can just get a job as a driving instructor. Or should be able to.

Schools will want the best/experienced teachers teaching their A level classes.

And have logistics/management factors to work with...not just the preferences of someone with a PhD who wants to cherry pick.

If a school has for example, only enough chemistry students for one class each in Y12/Y13, then that would only require c 10 hours teaching per week. What would your friend do for the rest of the week if they only teach A level have zero skills to teach KS3/4?

Combined with this schools often split the A level syllabus between 2 teachers...eg, one does organic, one does physical, playing to the teacher's strengths. It also mitigates the risk of only having one teacher...in case they leave/get run over by a bus. This would reduce the a level timetable to 5 hours a week if they only taught a level...

A PhD, non qualified teacher is not such an attractive option when weighed up with the practical factors?

I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding there, most secondary schools require their teachers to have QTS which is Qualified Teacher Status. The PGCE is academic qualification studied alongside working towards QTS, good to have but not essential.

What school would take on someone for QTS status if they've not bothered to get a teaching qualification?

QTS is what gives you the right to teach in the UK. You can't teach (apart from in the Private sector) without it. PGCE is an internationally recognised qual that is worth having if you want to teach abroad for example, NZ, AUS but don't need it in the UK, only QTS which can be gained through Teach First, Schools Direct or the Apprenticeship route. BE'd is another way at undergraduate level.