to put a positive spin on going to the male toilets if I must

[Definitelynamechanged123]

So there's probably an upside

There are rarely any queues for the gents.

I can't use the urinals seeing as I no longer have a penis so I'll be using the cubicles and there's normally no queue for those.

Blokes tend to stare in front of them.

Blokes don't tend to spend a long time at the sinks.

But good God, there can be a smell.

Do you always think of things in how they affect you personally, as though you were the only one who mattered?

Oh we can always tell…yeah, no you can’t. I know literally dozens of trans people who you’d never suspect a thing about. It WILL out them when they have to use the bathroom for their biological sex though.

the thing no one ever talks about when they want to protect women’s spaces…what about transmen? This ruling will mean there will be large bearded men in the women’s bathrooms. If it’s having a penis that bothers you, many of them have penises. How is that better??

Where on earth have you managed to accumulate “dozens” of trans friends? I thought they were supposed to be a tiny minority if the general population?
Your last point, regarding the majority of trans men having penises is nonsense, I’m sure.

A unisex/gender fluid loo for people is an important option,I think. I would only ever use women's loos, never mixed sex ones, but I think it would be good to have this option as commonplace.

I don't think they are going to have to. This ruling doesn't have anything to do with loos beyond recognising the word "woman" refers to biological women. Why this is making some people so upset I don't know.

No, there will be large bearded women in the women’s bathrooms.

No transman has a penis.

You must have had many years using them previously so they'll be familiar to you. That's an advantage.

Lots of positives there OP.

But also by using the toilets that correspond with your sex, you are also allowing female people to have their own single sex space. Thank you.

You chose to have a surgery without knowing what exactly was being done to you?

I'm not entirely sure how the surgery was done in full detail.

Many female people with transgender identities do not have penises. The few who have had surgeries have appendages that they have to manually pump up that really do not operate like a penis except that the appendage might have the urethra stretched to be able to urinate out of the tip.

Plus we have had female people with transgender identities who have taken testosterone who have told us that they hate been weaponised in the way you are now doing. Of course, there are some who are making these type of intimidating comments to cause fear in some female people who will not be able to understand that the person is female.

Those posters have also told us that they go to great lengths to find alternative toilet solutions because they do no wish to cause other female people distress with the changes they have sought through testosterone.

Actually LittlerCharlotte, I believe that if an organisation wishes to state that their toilets are single sex using exceptions under the EA, then yes, it will impact toilet usuage.

But having a male body is more than just having a penis. Every cell in their body is male. You seem to be focusing on penises when this is not even the body part that defines who is male and who is not male.

Am I in the minority of "cis" women who don't give a damn whether a trans woman uses the same toilet???? Or changing room for that matter.

What am I supposed to be worried about exactly? Because they're technically XY that they're gonna be looking over the top as i take a pee because they're so desperate to do that they've decided to identify as a woman???? They're gonna sexually assault me just because they lack a uterus? Hardly likely. Felt more threatened by some of the dodgy (presumably "cis") woman I've seen in toilets over the years to be honest!!!

Makes no difference to me whatsoever whether a person who looks and sounds like a female was born with a womb or has xx chromosomes. I probably wouldn't even know so why would I care??

Would I want a trans woman to venture in to a male toilet to make people with xx chromosomes feel more comfortable? Absolutely not that would be awful. Probably far more likely to suffer abuse etc...

I'm hoping that the ruling doesn't come down to things like this...

Lucky you that you don't care. Perhaps you understand that others do care and that they should have their needs met.

And yes, the ruling will allow organisations to declare that their spaces are single sex and will exclude people who are not of that sex category.

Why do they care though? Id like to know what the problem could be as I'm genuinely baffled. I understand some people may have awful histories of abuse etc that leave them feeling very vulnerable to be in a space with a male, but unless you've specifically been targeted by a trans female I fail to see how it would be triggering.

They aren't men, don't act or look like men.

They're just people trying to get on with their life and to make someone who has been through the pain and trauma of feeling like they were born in the wrong body and transition (which must be HARD physically and mentally because they DO get verbal abuse and stares I am sure) I'm sure that must be harder than spending 20 seconds brushing past someone in the loo as you wash your hands and wondering if they were actually born male....

Just been reading through a few threads and realised I'm probably on to a losing battle with this view so I'll leave it there.

If they don’t act or look like men why would they get verbal abuse and stares?

.

You would expect? Do you not know?

So you are talking about a handful of people who knew them prior to transitioning, not the general public?

“They aren't men, don't act or look like men.”

Yes. They are. And they are as per the EA. Just because you choose to believe that they are not men, if they were born male, they are men.

And you obviously have trouble correctly sexing a male person using male body cues and during some interaction (even just seeing them move). It is highly likely that most other female people will correctly sex a male person regardless of what they are wearing.

You obviously don’t understand that traumatised female people don’t need to have been abused by a male with a transgender identity. It is the male cues they respond to.

And I have been abused by a male person with a transgender identity, so what do you think I should do? Self exclude from using female public toilets? Because you, personally, can’t see the issue?

Plus female people use toilets for far more than just peeing. And our toilet usage is not restricted to cubicles either. If you have never needed privacy to use the toilet space other than within the cubicle, lucky you. Female people have needs that you obviously don’t. Yet you are here to tell us all what we need.

I didn't think that was any different before, though? There's always been the option for single sex spaces, it's just that businesses/charities were too nervous to enforce them for fear of being called transphobic.

You are right. It was available to use before. yes. You are correct there.

We need to start the campaigns to get organisations to use those exceptions which they hadn’t before (as you pointed out).

Personally I've not noticed a trans woman in the loo, although I'm sure they've been there. I'm not frightened of trans women. My fear is men "identifying" as women and single sex spaces no longer being safe. The angry, aggressive, bullish men who claim to be women in an attempt to frighten us or turn themselves on are my fear.

Regardless of whether you personally understand it or not, women have a right to single sex spaces.

Hopefully, they will feel confident in doing so now and we are backed by the law if they don't. Certainly I wouldn't have felt the law was on my side if I'd had an issue previously.