Public sector pay rises v private sector.

[Katypp]

We hear endlessly on MN that public sector workers are underpaid, overworked and do not have the advantages workers in the private sector have. All nonsense of course, as is the rhetoric about being able to earn much more for the same job in the private sector.
Teachers are being balloted about rejecting a 2.8% pay increase the year after they received a 5.5% increase.
I thought it woukd be interesting to try and get an idea of the reality of the public v private sector pay debate.
I'll start.
Work for a FTSE 100 company. This year we are getting 2%, last year was 1.5%.
I am paid just under £33k for a professional, skilled job, albeit in a generally low-paid sector. So less than a bin driver apparently.
There is no direct comparison to my job in the public sector, but the nearest equivalent was advertised at £38-£42k a couple of years ago.

Well you earn more than a bin driver working for my council. It’s about 31k was 28k 2 years ago. I’m earning 12.54 an hour with a law degree. There are positives job security, sick pay, pension. We do work it’s really unfair to assume everyone is a layabout.

Exactly. However that's not something mentioned in the OP of course.

I work in the public sector, and our base salaries are benchmarked at 20% below industry average. Industry had a 10-25% bonus scheme on top of that salary, but lower value pension than public sector one. Industry had private healthcare. Public sector has more leave. Industry had ‘fun’ team building days, taxis to the airport, funded team nights out when things were good, big Christmas party funded. Public sector is bus to the airport on the rare occasions there’s travel, standard class train even when first class is cheaper, pay for own Christmas lunch and occasionally people bring in biscuits, or we self fund a pub trip.

Industry were buying more soul and working to demand when there were problems. Public sector buy 37 hours a week.

Swings and roundabouts.

For both nominally full time jobs, public sector total reward value for hours worked is probably better than industry was. Industry put more money in my bank account each month.

I’m actively trying to get into public sector the pay might not be great, but the pension, job security, flexibility and prospects more than make up for it.

Take a much closer look before you leap if those are your reasons. Almost no recruitment in areas anyone wants to work in, massive redundancies, little progression, plenty of discrimination and bullying, and the pension now isn't what it was. You think ageism is a private sector thing - it isn't. Nor is sexism or disability discrimination. Your expectations are way off.

I'm a teacher. It's not about the money for me but I have voted to reject the pay offer because it is unfunded...in other words it will come out of school budgets which are stretched to their limit and have been decimated by previous unfunded pay offers, maintaining crumbling buildings, a huge upturn in dealing with students who would really be better supported in a specialist setting and so on. The underfunding of schools is directly impacting my working conditions and in turn my health and ability to do my job.

I’ve been unemployed for 8 months following my third redundancy since Covid.

my professional association tells people over 50 to delete your employment history to take at least 10 years off your age.

Pension might not be what it was years ago, but it’s much better than what I have. It won’t go bust for a start.

I know it’s not perfect, but the private sector isn’t either.

It's all very Elon Musk/Trump DOGE theory.

The idea that public sector employees are mostly pissing about doing little for great pay and benefits and GOLD PLATED pensions.

Is there waste that should be addressed? Of course but people need to realise that Trump/Musk or whoever champions it in the UK are always extremely rich business owners who give no fucks about society or the country they claim to be trying to improve.

They're fucked off because they want workers to have no rights, no unions, no DEI initiatives, no maternity or disability benefits or rights or so on because it doesn't benefit them.

Public sector/government workers are an easy target to start with because of all the ideas OP outlined in her OP.

So much anecdote and gossip here, people really don’t understand how different the work, contracts, remuneration, flexibility varies across different parts of the public sector.

We don’t all get annual increments. Most have very little flexibility in where and when they do their work. We are not immune form redundancy, we’re on our third round in 8 years here. Pensions vary, very much depends on your grade and when you started to what you get. We get the legal holiday entitlement, some get extra days added for long service and that’s capped. Bullying, obnoxiousness, age discrimination etc as common/uncommon as in the private sector. Things are slooooooow, sometimes because the system is creaking but often cos that’s just democracy baby, stuff has to go up to elected members and back down again.

As I said up thread, I was many many years in the private sector and some things were better (money, resources, facilities, agility). I could come on here and say all you people working for private companies are scammy bastards with no integrity. There was laughing about draining public money (schools budget) by adding nonsense work to pay for the Christmas party (it happened and I have more examples from different places I worked). But that would be rude, nasty and unfair wouldn’t it?

There are people in the public and private sectors getting their heads down, doing the best they can with what they’ve got and being shat on from 10 different directions. Can we not talk about this without punching people when they’re already down?

I know it’s not perfect, but the private sector isn’t either.

That was my point really. People assume things that really aren't the case. The public sector has it's own issues, and it is by no means an easy way out.

I hope you get what you want and that it turns out to be worth it. FWIIW, if it is of any help, it involved a certain amount of risk but it is easier to get in on temporary / fixed term contracts if you are looking at local government. These are often funded through "funny money" (various types of fixed term grants, often from government). As a rule if the post is worth doing they will often extend them (I have known people have their jobs funded from various pots for many years!); and it is usually the case that even with less than 2 years service, they will go to every length possible to not make you redundant (they will try hard to redeploy).

This sort of thread is totally ridiculous. They are always full of stupid, idiotic…

‘I get paid less than you so I’m somehow morally superior’

‘No I get paid less than you but struggle on and am better than you because of that’

‘Well last year I got a negative pay rise, so beat that!’

’Well this year we’ve been told our pay rise is a lump of coal’

What is the point of it, except to generate constant negativity and a race to the bottom, victim mentality.

It is pathetic and anyone that participates in it is ridiculous.

It is pathetic and anyone that participates in it is ridiculous.

You just participated in it.

I meant the competitive underpayment nonsense, which you well know. Stop being stupid.

Haven’t RTFT but I work in the public sector in waste & recycling and our bin lorry drivers do not earn more than you, OP. We’re in an affluent part of the SE too.

Interestingly too - many of them don't even work in the public sector these days. Contracting out is often to private companies!

I would love to see some of the best bits of both sectors shared. I hate the crabs in a bucket bollocks. And I hate that fingers get pointed at the people who have absolutely zero agency to resolve the issues.

Nationally negotiated local government rises have, in recent years, been a lump sum. This makes a decent percentage for lower pay grades (a good thing) but at the higher grades the percentage is considerably lower. The gap between what is paid for skills, experience and responsibility has narrowed considerably (particularly when the fiscal drag of the 40% tax rate threshold is factored in).

Not complaining though. Especially with the defined benefit pension arrangements.

As I have said on these threads before, (and I make no apology for that,) it's mostly a rubbish comparison. "Private sector" covers everything from someone in the corner shop to Goldman Sachs executives. "Public sector" also covers a range of very different roles.

Some roles have no direct equivalent between public and private. Mine does - I'm in IT and I've done the same role in public and private sectors. I'm much better off in private - but that's if I'm working for established big corporates. I could also work for smaller companies and be worse off.

Teachers will probably be better off working for a top public (independent) school than in the state sector, but not necessarily in some of the smaller, less high-profile independent schools. (Teachers and nurses should be well-paid - they are highly skilled, very important roles, and I wouldn't object to paying more tax if it definitely went to health and education.)

It's also true the whole package counts. Pension, bonuses, perks, holiday allowance, flexibility... some of those things may be more important than others. There's limited flexibility in my current role, but there is some, and it works well for me currently; there would have been other times in my life when it wouldn't have so much. Having said that, roles with higher salaries are often also those which come with more perks, bonuses and flexibility.

But the main thing is, it's generally a rubbish comparison, particularly for the whole sector rather than breaking i'r down.

Teachers are objecting to the pay rise because it's not funded. So it's out of school budgets which are already very stretched.

Government website says public sector pay is now 7% more than private. Public sector pensions are extremely generous compared with auto enrolment. Then there's full sick pay, generous holidays and over time, great redundancy packages. Job security. A lot of private sector workers get statutory minimum. No contest. Public sector wins on pretty much everything.

It depends hugely whether you're looking at a global corporate or a two-person SME. Comparing private and public sector is largely meaningless, as there are so many variables.

When I worked in private sector in London the company paid £120 per head for us to have a meal at a fancy restaurant for Christmas. Each course served with a pairing wine. We also received our annual performance bonus at Christmas time. I got 10K.

Now in public sector, good flexibility but no bonus or free lunches/dinners.

Public sector pensions are a shadow of what they used to be and for most people it's now a myth that better pension schemes make up for lower wages. I teach at a university and am old enough to still be in the TPS. New entrants at my place have to join a private scheme which will pay 1/3 of what I'll be entitled to. They will also get very few chances to get a permanent contract, let alone move up the pay scale. You can have a PhD and be on a yearly teaching contract that pays £36k.
Local government pensions have also been hit.

Private sector. No payrise last year but my bonus was about 25% before tax.

Not sure why you've resurrected this thread, but there are jobs with fairly rubbish pay and conditions, or fairly good ones, in both public and private sector.
In mine personally, I have a good pension. But then I am the only one of my peer group who isn't a higher rate taxpayer, my friends (private sector) all use salary sacrifice schemes and pay more into their pensions which balances things out quite a lot. My annual leave is comparable to theirs, as is sick pay, my redundancy would be statutory minimum. I am less likely to be made redundant so I do have better job security in that sense. I also work far longer hours than they do (unpaid) with much higher risk/responsibility.

As another poster said, comparing public and private is daft, there's good and bad in both, and too many variables.

Still the myths about the public sector continue.
Redundancy is paid at the same rate as for any other worker.
My friend is a social worker taking home £45k for a 36 hour week. She regularly works 50+ hours. THERE IS NO OVERTIME PAYMENT! She can claim TOIL but never finds time to take the hours back. If she doesn't do the 50+ hours her work doesn't get done and children are left at risk. Her sickness policy is one of three blocks of absence in a year and they can sack you.