Public sector pay rises v private sector.

[Katypp]

We hear endlessly on MN that public sector workers are underpaid, overworked and do not have the advantages workers in the private sector have. All nonsense of course, as is the rhetoric about being able to earn much more for the same job in the private sector.
Teachers are being balloted about rejecting a 2.8% pay increase the year after they received a 5.5% increase.
I thought it woukd be interesting to try and get an idea of the reality of the public v private sector pay debate.
I'll start.
Work for a FTSE 100 company. This year we are getting 2%, last year was 1.5%.
I am paid just under £33k for a professional, skilled job, albeit in a generally low-paid sector. So less than a bin driver apparently.
There is no direct comparison to my job in the public sector, but the nearest equivalent was advertised at £38-£42k a couple of years ago.

"Regrettably, this course of action means the Council would need to consider dismissal and reengagement for any colleagues who declined to accept the offer of new terms.
We have always said dismissal and reengagement would be the option of last resort for the Council and I want to assure you that we will continue to make every effort to avoid this scenario. The reassurance is that even with dismissal and re-engagement, all colleagues would be offered new contracts on the terms already set out in the Pay and Reward offer, and would be no worse off than had both unions agreed it at the recent ballot."

Part of the letter we were sent after being told we are getting pay cuts. So much for high pay rises!

I work in the NHS on band 7 and there was around 200 applications for my job. It's super competitive in my field and I've built skills in various sectors for over 20 years. I work hard to earn my wage. If you want to join the public sector feel free to apply for a role.

Many in the public sector had pay frozen for years.

At the end of the day there is a teacher shortage so something is going to have to be done to make more people want to do it.

It’s also worth noting that one of the things teaching unions are fighting against is UNfUNDED pay rises. If schools aren’t given the money to fund these much needed pay rises they have to take the money from the schools overall budget.

Most private sector jobs I have known have no pay rises. Extra pay comes through extra responsibilities or promotion etc. When I worked in the public sector a pay rise every year was the norm.

Chalk and cheese.

In the private sector I worked far harder, far longer, better pay, no pension (back then). Statutory sick pay (i.e. next to nothing). 4 weeks to 5 weeks holiday. Real responsibility (get the sack if you mess up).

In the public sector seldom had enough work to fill the day. Less pay. Fabulous pension. Sick pay was full pay for six months (unbelievable). 6 weeks holiday plus flexi time. No real responsibility (who cares if stuff goes wrong no one is responsible... lessons will be learnt mentality).

Basically hard workers will gravitate to the private sector in my experience. Those that aren't will gravitate to the public sector. Recently met a retired HMRC manager ... he couldnt send an email from his phone, says it all really.

I knew a senior civil servant who told me he earned less than his builder friend and was advising his children to learn a trade (google tells me SCS starts around 75k), which I can well believe as a few friends who have husbands in the trade always seem to have very very nice houses, cars and gadgets!

And OP, if you want to be a bin driver, do it. You need a specific licence and need to be willing to be up early dealing ith literal human shit in bags, dead pets wrapped in towels and needles incorrectly disposed of, but I suppose the money is what attracts people to these jobs.

Teachers are always singled out in these discussions because having met a teacher when they were a pupil at school, everyone feels they know what the job is and conditions are. In reality, they don't get that teachers' contracts mean they can be directed for 1265 hours a year, which is roughly a 32.5 hour working week in term time, but the workload can easily take double that (22 hours a week actually in class doesn't leave much room for planning the lessons and assessing the work generated, let alone everything else). Not to worry, there's a clause to tell them to work as many additional hours as necessary to get through job done.

My OH is in CS he often gets a gift voucher for £50 that others have nominated him for.

FFS. Have you seen the state of education? Constant budget cuts? The NI increases and pay increases have come without funding. So to pay a teacher more, something needs to be cut elsewhere. That's TAs, essential resources (much of which already comes out of teacher pockets already) and results in larger class sizes when teachers are axed. A 2.5% payrise should mean just that, not a 2.5% budget cut. Course we're pissed off - we're doing more and more with less and less, our jobs are under threat, our curriculum is poorly resourced a d kids who need support aren't getting it.

Just see the bigger picture.

You should spend a week as a teacher or nurse. Where were you working to not have enough work?

There's no guaranteed career progression in nursing.

It's one of the things unions are challenging.

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/progression-nurses-within-nhs

You are quite correct there are exceptions. I was a civil servant in many departments, had to leave for my own sanity. Plenty of good ones, dragged down by the bad.
Re nurses: my sister is a nurse. When she started it was 11 nurses to one admin in her ward. Now it’s two nurses and 11 admin.
Re teachers: not a job I could do due to the poor discipline standards expected, having to compensate for poor parenting but by recompense exceptional holidays and pension not seen in the private sector anywhere.

I vote that teachers should stop worrying about where the pay rise is coming from. Just accept what they offer and if schools can’t afford pencils/books/TAs etc. then I’m sure the parents that think our job is so cushy will be queueing up to buy supplies or volunteer in the classroom to 1:1 a high needs child or 2 or 3.

It's not a race to the bottom, but there is often rarely a true comparison. Going on gross salaries alone is not giving a complete picture.

The statutory minimum employers pension contribution (to a defined contribtion scheme, not final salary) is 3%, compared to 20+ % in public sector.

Statutory holiday is 28 days inc of BHs, compared to much higher holiday allowance (judging be my friends in the public sector).

Sick pay and maternity benefits also higher.

There is a huge variety of jobs in both the public and private sectors and you can prove or disprove your points in whatever way you wish, but when it comes down to cold hard cash, I suspect the packages offered by both are actually fairly similar.

Ds is paid higher than living wage. Every April a payrise. Warehouse sector. Now on 25.9k. Everybody else there seems to get pay increases too.

Wow amazing, you'd be paid more AND get huge pay rises? When are you moving over to the public sector?

Hope this helps.

The ONS, Financial times, BBC have all published similar graphs.

The payrise last year went a small way to restoring things, this year the NHS pay reccomendation is delayed, and rumoured to be below inflation, both of which were conditions for calling off strikes.

Guess where we're headed again..?

I'm supposed to get guaranteed progression? Can you tell my boss?

My main contribution here is nowadays you've really got to look at the whole package to get a sense of it.

Eg: public sector pensions are typically worth 20-30% vs private which are often between 3-7%
Working from home can save you a varied amount, poss up to around £6k a year compared with a London commute.
Private sector workers can get benefits like company cars, though not routine these benefits can be substantial.

Pay rises in public sector can look small but you have automatic increments in the banding each year on top of the pay rises.
Pay rises in private sector can be much more variable. You can also get bonuses. If you perform well in private sector there is often more flexibility to be awarded pay based on your performance whereas in the public sector, pay is by role only.

So, it's really really hard to know overall.
I've worked for years in the charity sector, which is shit pensions, shit pay, shit benefits, high instability - frequent redundancy rounds due to loss of funding. It's certainly a lot worse than the equivalent in the public sector (I did two short stints in public) but equally, private sector would probably be more in your pocket today - just less pension!

Ffs I work in the NHS and this literally happens every year. Yes, it’s shocking. That’s not what this thread is about - this is about whether the pay individuals receive in public sector is really worse than private sector. I was responding to the op rather than the totally different issue that you’re raising. I have very strong views about that working in an nhs team where we are 2 lead roles down and no money to replace for the reason you raise.

Same in NHS, to increase salaries, services have to be cut. That happens in the private sector too, but not usually with the same detrimental consequences.

Only the nhs has guaranteed increments. The rest of the public sector doesn’t have it

And on the point of pensions, yes the contributions from both worker and employer are much higher, but that only plays out to best benefit if you spend your entire career in the sector. If, like many of us, you have a varied career and come to eg NHS later with only a few years to retirement, then the differential isn’t great at all.

The NHS increments aren’t annual. Once you reach top of band (after 5 years), there are no more rises. Progression to next band isn’t automatic, you would have to apply for a new role in a higher band and the step between top of one band and bottom of next usually amounts to only £50 or so net per month.

Teaching used to be like this on the main pay scale, before moving to the upper, but around the time the pay freezes were happening, automatic progression was stopped.

This gov said performance related pay could stop, but that's not really been implemented any more than ensuring the measly 10% PPA time can be done from home like they said, despite this work being easily done at home, as shown by the hours worked evenings, weekends and holidays.