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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why screens aren’t investigated as a cause of childhood behaviour issues?

355 replies

Peony1897 · 14/04/2025 09:24

We now know that screens, and in particular tablets, have really horrific effects on young children and their emotional/social development - in particular speech, regulating anger, sensory issues and how they interact with their peers.

So why is it whenever we see a thread where a small child has some or all of the above issues, and the OP clearly mentions tablet use or ‘all they are interested in is screens’, the answer is nearly always an autism assessment rather than removal of screens?

Genuinely curious as to why such a clear risk factor is never picked up on.

OP posts:
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Waitingandwondering · 15/04/2025 23:23

Peony1897 · 15/04/2025 07:44

For me, teachers and early years workers are key in all this. Nobody has been keeping records so I think the best places people to say whether there has been a true change in kids behaviour are early years workers and teachers who have been at it 10+ years. Without exception all have said the same as you - that ND or SEMH behaviours have massively increased and this isn’t the same as better diagnosis. My personal suspicions are that screens play a role in this even they’re not the full story.

I'd agree with this. 20 plus years in EYFS settings. Children are not arriving in settings the way they did even 10 years ago. In the last 5 years, the rate of complex needs children is off the scale. I am in a very disadvantaged area too so this has an impact. Every professional I meet, who frequently come in to advise and support these children with complex needs says the same thing. "What is causing the extreme rise in needs?" We all would love to know!
These aren't children who went under the radar 20 years ago. On the first visit it is often apparent that there are ND traits. The sad part is, when there are so many non verbal, high needs children who will with no doubt need an EHCP, how can the same amount of adults support them all. We do our best. The powers that be do need to listen and take note that needs cannot be met with constant budget cuts year on year.

BertieBotts · 16/04/2025 15:14

Yes, I am interested in the teachers' / EYFS staff experience because that seems more objective.

My gut feeling is that the rise people are seeing is largely that it's more visible now and it used to be more hidden (plus some actual increase, but the majority being hidden > visible).

Interesting that the rise is higher in the last 5 years - could that be COVID related? I thought the rise was also happening before covid but not sure.

I am also wondering if cuts in services might be an issue - friends of ours have a DC in reception (MS). It has been clear since he was about 18 months that he was not developing typically. Yet he did not get speech therapy until he was 3 and he didn't get diagnosed with autism until he was 4.In fact the diagnosis is still only "provisional" because he has to be seen by 2x professionals in different fields and has only been seen by one, they were told it will be a wait of up to a year to see the second specialist - that is how their local authority are getting around the waiting list issue (and even with this, he was on the first waiting list for about 2 years). He can now speak, but doesn't reliably communicate.

I was so surprised and upset for them about this because it doesn't make sense to make a non speaking 18mo wait another 18 months for speech therapy. The ideal is supposed to be a maximum of 3-4 months. It says in the NICE guidelines that speech and language development should be assessed at the 2-2.5y check "so there is time to intervene before school" - well there might not be if there's an 18 month+ waiting list.

Anyway I guess what I'm trying to say is, could it be that 10+ years ago, more obvious developmental issues were being picked up earlier, around the 9 month/2 year HV check ups and referred on to actual services rather than being stuck on a waiting list for years? And so by the time the children started in an Early Years placement they had either already had some speech therapy (or other interventions) to help close the gap between them and their typically developing peers, or they had moved to a specialist nursery - meaning staff in mainstream EYFS/reception classes did not see as many children with this level of need. (I don't know if this is how it worked or not, so I'm asking).

I know that in some areas, even before COVID the 9m and 2y checks had been combined into a single check at 1-1.5 years, and I've seen not a small number of posts on UK based parenting forums over the last few years where this 1 year check up has picked up a query/borderline language issue (I understand it's too young really to say very much unless there are significant lack of development e.g. no babbling/gestures at all) but the advice has just been "wait and see" with no follow up appointment made and that's it - the parents then aren't always being given information about how long to wait or what to look for.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 16/04/2025 15:24

@BertieBotts I think a rise in the last five years does point to there being a COVID related impact. But it's difficult to dissociate this from screens because so many children had massively increased access to screens during COVID.

So how can we tell whether it is due to lack of face to face social interaction, or increased screen use, or some other COVID related factor?

One thing which I think will be interesting to see is whether the upward trend of the last five years continues, or decreases again in the cohort of children who didn't live through lockdown. Again though, additional screen use may have become a habit in certain families which continued after lockdown, including with younger siblings who were born later.

But for first children born from 2022 onwards, who never lived through a lockdown and were never stuck in front of screens while their parents had to work from home, and whose first social interactions were not hindered by mask wearing, perhaps their teachers will notice a difference when they start school.

Peony1897 · 16/04/2025 16:05

BertieBotts · 16/04/2025 15:14

Yes, I am interested in the teachers' / EYFS staff experience because that seems more objective.

My gut feeling is that the rise people are seeing is largely that it's more visible now and it used to be more hidden (plus some actual increase, but the majority being hidden > visible).

Interesting that the rise is higher in the last 5 years - could that be COVID related? I thought the rise was also happening before covid but not sure.

I am also wondering if cuts in services might be an issue - friends of ours have a DC in reception (MS). It has been clear since he was about 18 months that he was not developing typically. Yet he did not get speech therapy until he was 3 and he didn't get diagnosed with autism until he was 4.In fact the diagnosis is still only "provisional" because he has to be seen by 2x professionals in different fields and has only been seen by one, they were told it will be a wait of up to a year to see the second specialist - that is how their local authority are getting around the waiting list issue (and even with this, he was on the first waiting list for about 2 years). He can now speak, but doesn't reliably communicate.

I was so surprised and upset for them about this because it doesn't make sense to make a non speaking 18mo wait another 18 months for speech therapy. The ideal is supposed to be a maximum of 3-4 months. It says in the NICE guidelines that speech and language development should be assessed at the 2-2.5y check "so there is time to intervene before school" - well there might not be if there's an 18 month+ waiting list.

Anyway I guess what I'm trying to say is, could it be that 10+ years ago, more obvious developmental issues were being picked up earlier, around the 9 month/2 year HV check ups and referred on to actual services rather than being stuck on a waiting list for years? And so by the time the children started in an Early Years placement they had either already had some speech therapy (or other interventions) to help close the gap between them and their typically developing peers, or they had moved to a specialist nursery - meaning staff in mainstream EYFS/reception classes did not see as many children with this level of need. (I don't know if this is how it worked or not, so I'm asking).

I know that in some areas, even before COVID the 9m and 2y checks had been combined into a single check at 1-1.5 years, and I've seen not a small number of posts on UK based parenting forums over the last few years where this 1 year check up has picked up a query/borderline language issue (I understand it's too young really to say very much unless there are significant lack of development e.g. no babbling/gestures at all) but the advice has just been "wait and see" with no follow up appointment made and that's it - the parents then aren't always being given information about how long to wait or what to look for.

What do you mean by more visible? People often quote ‘they were in institutions’, but the institutions closed mostly in the 70s and were well gone by the late 1980s, so a good 30+ year gap between this and what seems to be a rise in SEN.

As for problems not being picked up sooner - I’m not convinced. Yes for sure things like Sure Start have been defunded/closed. But we also have the internet now which can tell you with a cursory google whether your child is on track and ways to help if they’re not. There’s so much advice and support at parent’s fingertips now. Plus the obvious, which is a lack of support in theory shouldn’t create SEN - if a child isn’t hitting milestones that predates interventions, so while a lack of support can result in more severe SEN it shouldn’t cause an actual rise in children in need.

Early years workers with decades of experience report almost unanimously that they’ve seen a huge rise in SEN and ND behaviours, I’m inclined to believe them. I feel it’s slightly different from what you’re talking about which is a lack of support for existing SEN children.

OP posts:
Peony1897 · 16/04/2025 16:13

Waitingandwondering · 15/04/2025 23:23

I'd agree with this. 20 plus years in EYFS settings. Children are not arriving in settings the way they did even 10 years ago. In the last 5 years, the rate of complex needs children is off the scale. I am in a very disadvantaged area too so this has an impact. Every professional I meet, who frequently come in to advise and support these children with complex needs says the same thing. "What is causing the extreme rise in needs?" We all would love to know!
These aren't children who went under the radar 20 years ago. On the first visit it is often apparent that there are ND traits. The sad part is, when there are so many non verbal, high needs children who will with no doubt need an EHCP, how can the same amount of adults support them all. We do our best. The powers that be do need to listen and take note that needs cannot be met with constant budget cuts year on year.

This is what I hear repeatedly from every person in the same field as you yet there seems to be no official acknowledgement of a problem. I remember a post on here from a longtime SALT saying non verbal autistic children made up a very small minority of her caseload 15 years ago, and now make up the majority of it. I too am mystified!

OP posts:
Therewasacat · 16/04/2025 16:21

I'm fairly sure my child would still be autistic with or without screens🤣 and I'm also sure there are psychologists out there conducting research studies about screen time all the time.

Waitingandwondering · 16/04/2025 16:57

With regards to covid babies/ toddlers, our current 2-3 year olds were born in 2022 and beyond. The signs of needs easing up do not seem to be evident yet. Everything was open by this point after covid and this cohort all got to start their 2 year old funding uninterpted. I'd like to think we will make lots of progress in their last year before school. However we are spread so thinly as so many of the children require above and beyond what a child developing typically does.

Peony1897 · 16/04/2025 17:08

Waitingandwondering · 16/04/2025 16:57

With regards to covid babies/ toddlers, our current 2-3 year olds were born in 2022 and beyond. The signs of needs easing up do not seem to be evident yet. Everything was open by this point after covid and this cohort all got to start their 2 year old funding uninterpted. I'd like to think we will make lots of progress in their last year before school. However we are spread so thinly as so many of the children require above and beyond what a child developing typically does.

Can I ask what has happened? When did you start to notice the rise? It is a specific profile of need, or disabilities in general? Are these children making progress or are they ‘stuck’? How many children in a class of (for example) 20 have these needs? Will they need care for life do you think?

DD was 6 months when Covid hit, in her class of 28, 5 have SEN and several more are being investigated. If the others are diagnosed that would be just under 1 in 3 with SEN which just seems… huge.

OP posts:
SomethingInnocuousForNow · 16/04/2025 17:44

"What do you mean by more visible? People often quote ‘they were in institutions’, but the institutions closed mostly in the 70s and were well gone by the late 1980s, so a good 30+ year gap between this and what seems to be a rise in SEN."

Well, the ESN schools (with 'homes' attached to them) had been abolished in the 1980s and although there was a push for more inclusion (from almost non-existent inclusion), it was much more normalised to send children with complex needs to residential special schools (which is still institutionalisation) all the way up to fairly recently. All the people I know with high needs autistic adult children in their late 20s and 30s now still went to residential schools.

Just speaking about my own children, who were/are non verbal and would have been diagnosed with autism even decades ago... If they were born in the 60s, 70s or even the 80s, they would have been expected to go to ESN / residential special schools very early. There's no way we could do what every other family did (even up to early 2000s) and turf them out to play with other kids: it's no exaggeration to say they probably would have died. I would never, ever have taken them to church, or pubs or out in the 60s - mid 00s because of the way they behave and their incontinence. So no, they wouldn't have been 'seen'. I can actually remember the first time I went in a special school (before I had kids, well post 2005) and I'd never seen children like that at all.

Then, about the less visibly disabled children, the ones with 'SEMH' needs (many of whom are autistic / ADHD)... Last century many of them will have been in mainstream schools, but a large portion of them will have been less 'seen' in borstals and the like. The ones whose behaviour wasn't extreme enough to exclude them from mainstream, would have likely dropped out from school mid- early teens and possibly got a job that made them a lot more regulated than being forced to continue in narrow academic schooling until adulthood.

I think the visibility thing is real, and that is without going into all the other arguments. I'm not even convinced behaviour is that much worse. My Dad regularly describes the terrible fights etc in schools.

SomethingInnocuousForNow · 16/04/2025 17:55

Peony1897 · 16/04/2025 17:08

Can I ask what has happened? When did you start to notice the rise? It is a specific profile of need, or disabilities in general? Are these children making progress or are they ‘stuck’? How many children in a class of (for example) 20 have these needs? Will they need care for life do you think?

DD was 6 months when Covid hit, in her class of 28, 5 have SEN and several more are being investigated. If the others are diagnosed that would be just under 1 in 3 with SEN which just seems… huge.

Well, 5 out of 28 is around 18% - 20% SEN in the classroom has been the average accepted rate for decades.

If the others are all diagnosed, I would presume many of those diagnoses would be autism. The diagnostic understanding of autism has broadened significantly. Although autism is usually considered a special educational need, some autistic children will not require that much school SEN support at all. The diagnosis is still valid and meaningful, particularly as their needs may change throughout their lives, but they wouldn't really need SEN specific support (SEN register or old 'school action' or 'school action plus'). Besides, some of the original 5 will probably end up in specialist settings by secondary age, meaning the proportion of SEN usually drops in mainstream education. I swear that 20% SEN assumption has been stable for years talking with the more experienced teachers I know.

Peony1897 · 16/04/2025 19:15

@SomethingInnocuousForNowso you disagree with PP who said in her years of early years experience SEN has shot up?

OP posts:
SomethingInnocuousForNow · 16/04/2025 19:23

Peony1897 · 16/04/2025 19:15

@SomethingInnocuousForNowso you disagree with PP who said in her years of early years experience SEN has shot up?

Hmm no, I think there's a real rise as well as a perceived rise.

I think the 'real' rise is probably down to lots and lots of different factors.

Edited to say - but the 'real' rise is probably being felt more and more in the bursting specialist schooling sector and a little bit in mainstream. What I was saying is we shouldn't be alarmed by 20% diagnosed SEN in mainstream classrooms, although I think this will end up going up to a point mainstream (in their current form) will really, really not be able to cope.

NeedAnyHelpWithThatPaperBag · 16/04/2025 19:38

I don't think it's unreasonable to wonder if modern life for children with its tech and current societal mores, is engendering some of the same behaviours experienced by those on the SEN and autistic spectrums, thus causing the rise in numbers.

Waitingandwondering · 16/04/2025 20:33

Peony1897 · 16/04/2025 17:08

Can I ask what has happened? When did you start to notice the rise? It is a specific profile of need, or disabilities in general? Are these children making progress or are they ‘stuck’? How many children in a class of (for example) 20 have these needs? Will they need care for life do you think?

DD was 6 months when Covid hit, in her class of 28, 5 have SEN and several more are being investigated. If the others are diagnosed that would be just under 1 in 3 with SEN which just seems… huge.

On role 32 in nursery: 8 non verbal children. 3 have diagnoses and the others have been referred and awaiting assessment. Before it was often children who were language delayed but were still making progress. We still have these groups of children, but in addition, we have the large group of complex needs as well. (Not all attend at once). Only 4 staff per day and often 5 complex needs children, many others needing general intervention. Not to mention the explosion of needs regarding toilet training. In September we had 18 in class. 15 of whom in a nappy! We are drowning and year on year the job gets harder. Many of my peers have left early years as it is so broken. I have a couple of years in me, then I'll be thinking about my second career once my own DC don't need me at home in the holidays. We can earn a lot more doing a much less challenging job and with a lot less stress. Each and every child is amazing, and we are so fond of them all. However, the job needs to change to reflect the needs having changed. We need more staff, resources, time to create bespoke learning etc. The old ratios don't work any more when you have 4 year olds who are non verbal, in nappies, no awareness of danger and in some cases not even recognising their own name. This is alongside the 2 year olds who just need a lot of support due to being two! Nobody listens and the whole sector is in disarray as the Gov are dismantling nurseries one by one as they do not raise funding but increase NI, NMW etc. But that's another thread!

BlueandWhitePorcelain · 16/04/2025 21:47

Anyway I guess what I'm trying to say is, could it be that 10+ years ago, more obvious developmental issues were being picked up earlier, around the 9 month/2 year HV check ups and referred on to actual services rather than being stuck on a waiting list for years? And so by the time the children started in an Early Years placement they had either already had some speech therapy (or other interventions) to help close the gap between them and their typically developing peers, or they had moved to a specialist nursery - meaning staff in mainstream EYFS/reception classes did not see as many children with this level of need. (I don't know if this is how it worked or not, so I'm asking).

@BertieBotts - this is only my experience and therefore anecdotal. DD1 is in her thirties. I don’t remember any concerns raised about her development at the 2 year check, except by me. I had said from the day she was born, there was something wrong, but I didn’t know what. Health visitors told me, my other two DC were bright, and she was the other end of the ability scale - just accept it! I kept going on, that she didn’t understand us, like a baby should and we could barely understand what she said! Eventually the HV referred her for a speech and language assessment. She was diagnosed at 2y 10m with a significant receptive and expressive language disorder. The speech and language therapist told me on that first day, DD1 would need a statement and probably a language unit. She put DD1 forward for assessment for statementing, at age 3. I had no idea, about any of this. She never got any speech therapy on the NHS before she started school. She was called in for another assessment once, but she was so shy, she didn’t say a word and it was pointless. We paid for weekly speech therapy until she went up to reception.

The NHS speech therapist, who assessed her for statementing agreed with the private speech therapist, that DD1 needed to go to a language unit, because she’d only cope in mainstream for a term or two. She did go to a language unit from age 5, and was only ever in specialist speech and language provision up to age 16. I met several hundred children, with speech and/or language disorders - I was never aware DD1’s experience was much different from all her friends.

In those days, there were no screens except the tv, and I was brought up only to watch a specific program. As children, we were never allowed to have the tv on in the background or when there were visitors. I still live like that. My DC probably only watched one episode of Teletubbies or whatever a day under 5. I was told by the speech therapist, DD1 struggled to understand us at the best of times - we couldn’t have music or the tv on, while talking to her.

The big debate in those days was how many children were born with a speech and/or language disorder and how many suffered language delay, because nobody ever talked to them, and they were in front of the tv all day. It was really tiresome, having strangers assume that all we had to do was switch the television off!

At 16, we were told she had a congenital brain abnormality in the right frontal lobe, causing the language disorder and other specific learning difficulties like dyslexia, dyspraxia, etc. That was unusual - most parents were told, MRIs wouldn’t show a language disorder.

BertieBotts · 16/04/2025 22:01

I think SEN/ND issues are more visible in many ways.

Yes institutions in the old fashioned sense hopefully went out with the ark, but there were still a lot more special school places in the 80s/90s compared to population number, it was also easier/more common to exclude pupils from mainstream schools. And some children with milder support needs were able to be accommodated in mainstream classes on a reduced timetable and/or with TA support, which I understand is more difficult today partially because there are more children in MS school classes with needs, but also there are fewer TAs, the teachers are more stressed out with more expectations on them so they can be less flexible, class sizes are larger, and a compound effect of having serious behaviour issues in classrooms (because of more intense needs and/or children less able to cope) is that there will always be some children in the class who either copy that behaviour, or are unsettled by the general chaos who would cope much better if the class was calmer and more predictable - they in turn might today be identified as having SEN/SEMH whereas they might not have been picked up on in previous decades/generations.

It is also (rightly) no longer acceptable to write children off as stupid - I expect there were children in classes years ago who weren't engaging or learning but as long as they learnt to keep their head down (which they might have done either because it suited them, or because they believed the "stupid" label, or due to fear of harsher discipline) then they went under the radar with a lot of teachers not bothering with them. Whereas today teachers are expected to put in the effort to engage those pupils and "get results", while not being given any extra resources, time, training which is actually helpful etc. And barely any flexibility or room in the curriculum to accommodate pupils who might not learn in an exam-focused, sit down and study, academic type way.

While including and engaging these pupils is important, nobody seems to acknowledge that this is a MASSIVE amount of extra work which was sort of unofficially never expected of teachers before, and nobody wants to talk about the fact that people are so varied that education cannot possibly be one size fits all and it never has "fitted" all, anyway. I don't think the old way was right, but I also don't think you can just shoehorn proper support for these kinds of SEN/SEMH pupils into a teacher's already complicated job within the current school system. This is just more invisible labour expected of a majority female profession.

It feels more visible online because you have people talking about SEN/ND issues both on social media, parenting forums, and in news media, on TV, online newspapers/articles etc. It's everywhere and it's become this huge topic of discussion which makes it feel more prevalent than it is - people say "everyone has autism now!" etc when really it is almost definitely still a minority that they are talking about, even if it is a large minority. And there is "official" discussion about SEND budgets because costs associated with SEND are increasing all over the country, and nobody seems to know or agree what the driver for increasing costs is, which is why there is this debate about whether or not the increase/costs are legitimate, and lots of avoiding the elephant in the room which is that no politician will outright admit that they were perfectly fine with the old way of cutting costs which included not bothering to educate disabled children, beating children into submission and not bothering with children who find it difficult to engage with education.

Similar to writing kids off as stupid in the past, I think there was less bother to chase up persistent absentees or notice patterns of truancy etc, and lower standards in terms of qualifications when you left school. There are a lot more records now so everything is more accountable. People in my parents' generation left school without any qualifications sometimes, it's not an uncommon story at all. I understand that the labour market in the 60s/70s/80s was also different and you could get jobs much more informally. My grandparent's generation (who left school during wartime) were full of stories like "They asked me if I wanted to be a nurse or a teacher and I thought neither, so I went and signed up for the Land Army" or "There was a factory in the town so I went and got my first job there" as though you just walk in and get offered a job, which sounds almost inconceivable to 2020s me, except that I now live in a German village where life is in many ways still very much like this - everything is very small scale and local, and if you get involved in any aspect of local village life, you meet people and everyone knows everyone else including the foreman of the local factory, so you are really never more than a couple of steps away of knowing where things like local vacancies are.

But the world doesn't work like that any more, and it is more difficult for people who struggle at school to get a job without qualifications, you even need patience and computer skills just to apply to things like shelf stacking in a supermarket because the application processes are all online.

I think a lot of undiagnosed ND people in the past (and present day adults) also end up with mental health struggles or addiction problems or in the criminal justice system - the estimates of ADHD and autism rates in prisons for example are shocking. But people with those kinds of issues are invisible to a lot of people. Or they often tend to live quite alternative lives off the beaten track, being attracted to subculture or simply keeping to themselves, being quite isolated (which may suit them, if they are introverted). So again, not very visible to the majority, although this is getting well away from children in schools/EYFS.

I do think early intervention or lack of is key because it is known to make such a huge difference in a lot of cases, which is why in the US they are really hot on it and almost intervene a bit TOO much and some people argue that it's unhelpful and causes anxiety in parents and a lot of the time children will catch up on their own or don't need to be pushed into a box. There are always going to be children who are developing slower than average and who may benefit from intervention but will catch up, more or less, on their own, intervention or not - and there are always going to be children who will benefit from early intervention but will always have complex needs no matter how much intervention they have, and it's the group in the middle, where I think that a lack of intervention/understanding can often place them in a sort of "no man's land" where they're not actually in the complex needs group but they certainly have much more complex needs than can easily be met by mainstream settings, and then you get a kind of snowball effect, which I think we are in now, where the cycle goes like this:

> Service (intervention/assessment/support) can't meet demand because budgets have been cut and/or demand has increased (budgets HAVE been cut everywhere, so this is not only down to increased demand).
> Service increases waiting time and/or prioritises the highest need cases
> Children with a moderate or mild need get older and still have the same struggles and/or fall further behind, and are stuck in mainstream without support, which can't cope with them.
> Children in this extremely stressful situation develop secondary issues because of this stress e.g. a lack of social skills or a communication problem makes it difficult for them to have positive interactions with peers and adults, their repeated experience of negative interactions cause them to feel anxious about social situations, avoid those situations (perhaps, if you like, through excessive screen time - you can also substitute motor skills in place of social if you like) and therefore have less opportunity to practice the skills they need, they fall back on less-positive approaches e.g. lashing out physically out of fear/anxiety because they do not understand the behaviour of other children, which makes the classroom unsafe for others and may result in behaviour management that the child (if they don't understand or don't know how else to resolve a problem) may experience as unfair, confusing, or at worst, traumatic. It does not change the behaviour because the underlying issue was not solved. Adults feel frustrated with the child and the child comes to see adults as untrustworthy or themselves as bad. This can happen even when everyone involved has positive caring intentions.
> By the time the child gets to the end of the waiting list their problems are severe and the secondary issues such as behavioural problems or depression/anxiety or school avoidance are a huge barrier to them actually engaging in something which would help and so they appear to have much more intense needs than they may have had if they could have accessed intervention at an earlier point. It is also harder to catch them up on the skills they are lacking because they are now further behind. Bear in mind they don't necessarily need to catch up to where "everyone else" is but even to the level that they can engage with school/peers/etc.
> Also, because the child's needs are more intense and therefore complex, this increases demand on the already overwhelmed service, which takes us back to the start again.

crouchendtigerr · 16/04/2025 22:01

I have both ND children and NT children. My NT children have had and get way more screen time than my ND children
YABU
And talking utter bollocks

crouchendtigerr · 16/04/2025 22:02

Not only do my NT children get more screen time, they also get a lot less attention from me.

BertieBotts · 16/04/2025 22:36

It's true about residential schools and borstal type places through the 90s as well. I hadn't even included that but yes, of course there were (and are) still institutions in those senses.

I think what I'm thinking of with fewer children with SEND/SEMH in mainstream schools in past decades is anecdotes like I read on a thread of school memories once that a MN poster remembered a boy joining her class in primary school and behaving in a way that she found very shocking (I can't remember what it was now) - the headteacher was summoned and led the boy out and none of them ever saw him again. Presumably, he was immediately expelled or had only been there on a trial basis and the headteacher told the parents they needed to take him somewhere else. That would not be allowed any more. Schools have to do more to meet children's needs before resorting to expulsion, which again, is good in theory, but in practice if they can't meet their needs it is a policy which doesn't improve anything, and seems to exist more because there isn't enough specialist provision, rather than to stop unscrupulous schools from washing their hands of disruptive children.

Natsku · 17/04/2025 04:22

@BertieBotts I suspect there's two things going on here. First there is an increased visibility of children with SEN because more children with higher needs are going into mainstream schools due to cuts (less specialist provision, less checks so their needs don't get picked up before they start school, less help for those who do have needs so they aren't getting that essential early intervention), plus increased number of premature children surviving, and at the same time there is a rise in children who are having their development affected in a different way, but has some similarities in needs and behaviours, caused by excessive screen use.

In my country there are lots of development checks in early childhood (monthly for babies, then yearly until 7, then in certain school years) and there is very easy access to special ed teachers in schools so SEN children are picked up quickly usually, can usually get fairly swift access to help, and there's specialist provision everywhere so rates of diagnosis shouldn't really increase that much. But at the same time there has been an alarming increase in children appearing to have ADHD, and the cause of this is being wondered about because this increase can't be to do with increased visibility as that has remained the same, something else must be causing it.

Peony1897 · 17/04/2025 07:05

BertieBotts · 16/04/2025 22:36

It's true about residential schools and borstal type places through the 90s as well. I hadn't even included that but yes, of course there were (and are) still institutions in those senses.

I think what I'm thinking of with fewer children with SEND/SEMH in mainstream schools in past decades is anecdotes like I read on a thread of school memories once that a MN poster remembered a boy joining her class in primary school and behaving in a way that she found very shocking (I can't remember what it was now) - the headteacher was summoned and led the boy out and none of them ever saw him again. Presumably, he was immediately expelled or had only been there on a trial basis and the headteacher told the parents they needed to take him somewhere else. That would not be allowed any more. Schools have to do more to meet children's needs before resorting to expulsion, which again, is good in theory, but in practice if they can't meet their needs it is a policy which doesn't improve anything, and seems to exist more because there isn't enough specialist provision, rather than to stop unscrupulous schools from washing their hands of disruptive children.

But again - a good 20/30 year gap between this ending and the rise we see now. Just doesn’t explain it away.

OP posts:
Sheeparelooseagain · 17/04/2025 07:20

"What do you mean by more visible? People often quote ‘they were in institutions’, but the institutions closed mostly in the 70s and were well gone by the late 1980s, so a good 30+ year gap between this and what seems to be a rise in SEN.""

They are in mainstream. Ds who is an older teen started off in mainstream. He was and is non verbal with severe learning difficulties. Children like him frequently remain in mainstream until secondary age now.

BertieBotts · 17/04/2025 07:49

You make every one of my posts into a straw man argument. I have not explained anything "away" with a single change - all of this stuff is gradual and takes time to show up. Nothing has changed overnight.

I'm not saying there's no rise at all but I think screens are more of a symptom than a cause, could be an exacerbating factor but I don't see it as a sole cause, it's not that simple. And I also think SEND and SEMH are much more visible today than they were in the past and people working in the field professionally have more work with fewer resources per child. Which seems to be reflected by those who do have experience.

SomethingInnocuousForNow · 17/04/2025 08:25

Peony1897 · 17/04/2025 07:05

But again - a good 20/30 year gap between this ending and the rise we see now. Just doesn’t explain it away.

Well, the number of special schools has been declining since the 90s. Obviously with fewer special schools you will see more of children with the most complex needs in mainstream.

sunshine244 · 17/04/2025 08:37

Peony1897 · 16/04/2025 16:05

What do you mean by more visible? People often quote ‘they were in institutions’, but the institutions closed mostly in the 70s and were well gone by the late 1980s, so a good 30+ year gap between this and what seems to be a rise in SEN.

As for problems not being picked up sooner - I’m not convinced. Yes for sure things like Sure Start have been defunded/closed. But we also have the internet now which can tell you with a cursory google whether your child is on track and ways to help if they’re not. There’s so much advice and support at parent’s fingertips now. Plus the obvious, which is a lack of support in theory shouldn’t create SEN - if a child isn’t hitting milestones that predates interventions, so while a lack of support can result in more severe SEN it shouldn’t cause an actual rise in children in need.

Early years workers with decades of experience report almost unanimously that they’ve seen a huge rise in SEN and ND behaviours, I’m inclined to believe them. I feel it’s slightly different from what you’re talking about which is a lack of support for existing SEN children.

How many of them are children who wouldn't have survived ten years ago though? I know several of the most complex needs children in our primary school were very premature. Another had major surgery they hadn't been expected to survive (and wasn't available in the past).