To wonder why screens aren’t investigated as a cause of childhood behaviour issues?

[Peony1897]

We now know that screens, and in particular tablets, have really horrific effects on young children and their emotional/social development - in particular speech, regulating anger, sensory issues and how they interact with their peers.

So why is it whenever we see a thread where a small child has some or all of the above issues, and the OP clearly mentions tablet use or ‘all they are interested in is screens’, the answer is nearly always an autism assessment rather than removal of screens?

Genuinely curious as to why such a clear risk factor is never picked up on.

Like I said, I'm not convinced about the correlation between genuine neuro diversity and bad behaviour.

As many people have been at pains to point out, many adult women being diagnosed now were not diagnosed in their youth precisely because their behaviour was OK.

So I think in most cases there is another explanation for bad behaviour, and it seems highly likely that screen use has contributed. I even see this in my own (AFAIK) NT four year old, who gets very little screen time. Even half an hour of Peppa Pig at the weekend can be enough to cause a tantrum when it's time to stop. The effect on his behaviour really is instantaneous. So I'm not really in any doubt about the harmful effects of excessive screen use on children's developing brains.

It's not "waving studies away" to say READ the studies because they don't say what you are implying.

I reckon most parents of ND kids (not saying there aren't any irresponsible ones) probably monitor their kids' screen use and have more input over it than parents of NT kids because IME, NT kids are less affected by it and while of course most children would prefer playing computer games to doing homework, it seems more difficult to break patterns with ND kids than NT so you have to be that much more consistent in the first place.

It's wildly frustrating being a parent of an ND child, putting in (at least) twice the effort for maybe half the results (some days it feels like 10x the effort for 10% of the results) and then having people on top deciding that because your parenting doesn't look like NT parenting it must be wrong and you should stick to some arbitrary rule, often even a higher standard than they would apply to any NT parent, because it might be why your DC are "wrong".

I agree OP! I notice a sharp decline in my daughter’s behaviour when she’s had more exposure to screens so she is firmly not allowed access to any iPad or phone at home. She can watch tv but limited shows and for limited time. It’s more effort to entertain them when we go out for meals and definitely not relaxing but I’d rather go through this than have a reliance on screens. We aren’t perfect and she definitely used the iPad on a flight but so many times kids just have screens shoved at them! My friends son who is two has his own iPad. They just don’t need them!

People used to let their children watch more than half an hour of tv on the weekends without behavioural issues, why is half an hour of Peppa Pig causing such a problem?

I wonder if it has to do with pretty much anything you want to watch being instantly available? When I was four you had to watch programmes as they were broadcast. If it was on once a week, it was once a week you watched it, there was no choice. I remember watching Doctor Who from around 4 years old, along with Saturday morning BBC kids television (I wasn't allowed to watch TisWas!), and cartoons like Tom & Jerry.

This is a really good point actually.

Even when I used to babysit for a little girl who liked Peppa Pig (about 15 years ago now), we would watch it as it was broadcast on Nick Jr, and then when the three episodes were over and something else was coming on, I would say, "OK, Peppa is finished now, time to switch the TV off and do something else."

Even though another kids' programme was being broadcast directly afterwards, it made for a natural place to stop. The little girl I was looking after understood that we didn't control what was on the TV, and when Peppa was finished, Peppa was finished and that was that.

My son has no concept of watching programmes as they are broadcast because we never do it. When he wants to watch Peppa Pig, whatever day or time of day it is, we search for Peppa Pig and press play. He knows instinctively that the supply of Peppa Pig episodes is effectively limitless, and that when we stop watching, it is not because Peppa is finished, but because mummy has decided it's time to stop.

So yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

There are of course bad parent of ND kids, in the same way there are bad parents of NT kids.

Parents need to intervene when a child is causing issues, lashing out, hurting others etc regardless of the issue. The parents I see repeatedly not intervening have never mentioned autism to me. They usually 100% ignore what is happening, or say something about how they are impossible to control / don't listen. I've never seen autism mentioned as an excuse in that way (and I spent a lot of time at ASN groups).

I think the use of screens in school is interesting - especially in the early years. DD came back from her "Outstanding" school Reception familiar with a range of cbeebies shows we had never watched - I'm not knocking the teachers, they are stressed and overloaded but say limiting after school TV to 20 mins a day become negligible if she's been watching it already at Milk Time, before lunch and at the end of the day.

Tv shows used to be slower as well, they didn't have the high speed, high effects they do now and as you say you couldn't binge. We're watching the BBC old version of Chronicles of Narnia and there is so much more conversation and slow pace (despite the compressed stories) I almost find it therapeutic compared to stuff nowadays.

No, it is because kids don't learn to pick up on social cues.

Because they are addicted! Like an addict calming down when he gets his fix

Exactly I've three ND children they behave well in public I do use screens with my youngest but he likes a lot of physical contact and it gets a bit much sometimes! The screen gives me a wee break admittedly but he puts it away when asked 🤷‍♀️

I actually get tired of shite parenting being classed as "autistic traits" and children suddenly being told no "having meltdowns"

Music doesn't stop you from seeing all the bright lights and busy environment of everyone else around you. It doesn't focus your attention on anything when the environment around you is overwhelming.

Christ on a bike, you're like a dog with a bone aren't you?

Ok, given that you, by your own admission, have no actual idea of the process, I'll enlighten you.

To even get a referral for an assessment, parents will have their own concerns. They will have spoken to health visitors, gp's, paediatritions. They will have to submit "evidence" from other settings like nursery or school. Even getting the referral takes a lot and then the threshold for accepting it onto the (3 year) waiting list for an assessment is extremely high.

Every time you speak to one of these about concerns or pass on a form for evidence, you'll be given advice - most of which you've already tried.

Then you wait. And wait. And do your best. Obviously some could do better, as can plenty of parents with NT kids.

But this idea you seem to have that there's, what, hundreds? Thousands? Of parents just passively waiting for a Sen diagnosis to be handed on a golden plate like fecking harribo at a kids party so they don't have to put any effort into parenting is as ridiculous as it is offensive.

Oh, some of them certainly don't seem to be waiting for a diagnosis (or even trying to get one) before they give themselves permission to be a lazy parent.

And they give the families like the ones you are describing a bad name.

Don't forget being told to phone a million different numbers to tell your whole story again and again to people who it turns out can't help you but can signpost you to someone who might be able to. Rinse and repeat. Oh and you have to do this during working hours, while trying to stay in your job, being up all night with your child and having them regularly attack you during meltdowns.

And everybody does this. The bloody GP insisted we check out a bunch of services that DS wasn't even eligible for before he'd do the CAMHS referral - that was turned down anyway (with an error in the letter saying he'd been turned down for the ASD assessment just to cause us more stress), then accepted after the school intervened, then over three hours talking to them just for them to say the problems were caused by ND so nothing to do with them. And we got fined by the sodding hospital car park private company and had to fight that.

The whole system appears to be set up to make things as difficult as possible in the hope that you will give up and go away.

In truth you have absolutely no idea if these children have a diagnosis or undiagnosed SEN or not but seem to have some sort of bee in your bonnet that everyone is either lying to excuse bad behaviour, or are just shit parents.
You have absolutely no idea what those parents have or are currently going through.

Do you feel superior that your perfect little NT children are so well behaved without the use of screen time? Aren’t you just the perfect parent I wish we could all be like you.

The mother who said to me, "Oh, he's autistic" and then calmly turned away to continue having a good old chin wag with her friend whilst her son who was eight years old if he was a day continued to damage the play equipment in a play area for toddlers didn't look particularly stressed, to be honest.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom look, truth be told I have very little skin in this game. My 5 year old has his autism diagnosis, after 4 years of fighting/waiting. He is very well behaved unless he's exceptionally overwhelmed and we have our coping strategies for those times. He does not have (and has never had) a tablet - as I mentioned up thread.

I guess that means I'd get your approval. But your tone and your assumptions are really offensive. I'm perfectly aware of what some people think when they hear by son talk in an accent sometimes (it's his "narrating" voice and he uses it as kind of wall to hide behind sometimes) or when he's stammering or gets overwhelmed and we have to go outside. I see the looks when he politely, but not exactly appropriately, gives out his full name, address and directions to our house to people he sees on the street. They think he's picked up his accent because all I do is stick him in front of a screen. That he stutters because we don't talk to him enough. That he can't cope with "normal" situations because we've not parented properly. I feel I have to work 10 times harder just to show "see, it's not me, honest" to people who don't even care about us and with everything else I'm doing, it's exhausting.

And I know you'll say we're not the "type" of families you are talking about. But that's just the thing, isn't it? You don't Know.

I get that some parents are crap, honestly I really do. But when I see big sweeping generalisations and snippy tones, especially from those who have no real, practical idea about how hard things can be, it really rubs me up the wrong way.

Great post and well done for having the patience for this PP that I cannot muster.

I would give up, it’s very clear from her replies that you’d only be wasting your time!

Unfortunately ignorant people exist. I know exactly what it’s like! I think for my own sanity I need to stay away from these threads..

I had sensory issues when I was child, still do, I had ‘behavioral’ issues when I was a child. I grew up in the 80’s would have been diagnosed adhd/asd for sure! My daughter had sensory issues when she was 2 , no screens yet at that age, just all play, natural play, even tv was limited, lots Outdoor play, toddler group. Free play at home as she pleased, YABU.
another one trying to pin everything on screens ,if it’s not vaccines it’s screens. Get over it. Some people are different. And have sensory issues and always have done since forever. It’s just we are better at recognizing it now and giving it a name.

Oh I forgot about vaccines! Perfect comparison.

There was a time (after it was 'refrigerator mother') where vaccines were seen as a credible cause of autism (with a doctor and 'research' and everything!!) People still believe this shit 30 years later (yes, I'm a young mum and I've still been asked if I vaccinated my children). Apparently everyone was talking about the correlation and common sense of it then.

Screens is the new vaccines is the new refrigerator mother.

Lots of people have sensory issues without having autism, or indeed any diagnosis

Of the asd children i know most do love computer games mainly roblox. But one family has children after being on epilepsy meds. And another mum is alcoholic so perhaps fasd.

i would say i note that none of the asd kids i kno w seemed to regularly go to toddler groups. Even on mat leave so perhaps like a post i read recently they were not going and that instead maybe going out for coffee with mum etc rather than playing with other kids. Some did likely start nursery after mat leave. Though 1 kid who had delayed speech slightly was being put to bed very soon after nursery so basically had no parental interaction in the week. He was very placid and didnt move till about 15m would just sit watching tv

my eldest is likely audhd. (She did go almost weekly to toddler group). Had amazing early speech met all milestones. But also very hard to get to sleep and didnt go to nursery because she wouldnt settle (and with adhd behaviour wasnt safe there).
she didnt really watch tv until 1. And then was cbeebies or peppa pig. As 12 now no tablet backthen and i wasnt using a phone. She was clearly a difficult child from maybe as young as 6 months as she never took notice of no and would always do things anyway so we had to intercept. She had sensory issues with hair and teeth and suntan lotion from very young.which are ongoing with one new sensory issue from 7.
she didnt play roblox till 7 ...during covid. And had hardly used a device before then.
Socially she seemed fine-ish until year 3 at school. However she hadnt been invited to any nursery parties and was left out a lot at school. With down to 1 party invite a year by 8. From reception she had a friendship group of girls and boys but gradually drifted from all the girls. (Too rigid).
Sometimes she doesnt want to go to clubs as is playing. And frequently she doesnt want to stop as to do homework. Though she was like this before getting onto a device as during covid she took all day to do maths work. She would rather do anything else. (She would also do this re playing LOL dolls too.)
We never had devices in the car as shes car sick then. And istead had huge arguments with her sister. Likewise never use really until recently in restaurants. Always also had issues in long queues.

Until at least 6 was very difficult with her hitting/biting and endangering herself i think (probably like other sen parents we were exhausted by this point)
Outcomes could possibly have been different if she had got the diagnosis at 4. But the school were useless despite many issues - parental blame implying with no reason we werent strict enough.

i dont really think the rise in uk diagnosis or asd and adhd is screens more likely
parental age
obesity
survival of prem babies
some will be fasd as they esitmate that affects 5%
Less need to compromise (not watching tv together or playing with siblings)