Why are UK jobs so hard to apply to

[Arianasande]

I'm from the UK originally, but I've lived in other European countries for many years.

I work in education, but I'm not a teacher. I work in student services.

I've worked in many international schools and boarding schools.

I recently decided to come back to the UK. I applied for and I was offered a job in student services in the UK.

But omg the amount of checks! They did a DBS check on me. That came back fine.

Then they did a load of other checks on me. Which were their own company checks. These seemed to go on forever.

Then there were so many checks to make sure I had the right to work in the UK. I supplied my UK birth certificate at the start of the process. Which wasn't enough.

I provided two references which came back successfully. Then they asked me for another reference. Then they asked me for a fourth reference. At this stage I said no. And I said "normally two references are sufficient. "
The hiring man then said "well it's just that we like to do very thorough checks".

I was then talking to a teacher here in my international school. Shs is from the UK. And she said the same thing. She said that she was thinking about moving back to the UK, but that the amount of checks and the amount of hassle put her off. She applied for a job, and They also told her that one of her references was not good enough. So she decided to stay in her international school outside of the uk.

Its like they treat you like your are a criminal! I was wondering why it's like this.

They're just being cautious. Better to be safe than sorry n all that.

I'm trying to apply to to NHSP for nurse bank work. It's like trying to get into the MI5 !!!

I felt like they were going to ask for my fingerprints and blood type next!

Yeah I can understand being cautious.

But I've given them my birth certificate, my passport, they've done a dbs check on me. I've given them two references.

My point is why do schools in the UK want so much more information from us, then schools in the rest of Europe.

I remember applying for one job in the UK previously, and it was the same.

I suppose one thing is that in the EU, the countries all have the right to live in each other's country. So it's easier.

But not a lot of people have the right to live in the UK. So that adds to more checks.

I did give my uk birth certificate to them right at the start of the process though

DBS is about making sure your safe to work with children

Being born in the UK doesn't necessarily make you a UK citizen it depends on the status of your parents. So they need to make sure you have the legal right to work in the UK.

Teaching in the UK is a tough gig and budgets are absolutely shot.

The school can't afford to cock up employing someone flakey, or someone who is going to go off sick with ongoing health problems or with stress within a couple of weeks/months.

They want to check you aren't seeing it as a transient role, you come for half a term and then move on to pastures new (because the world is huge and inviting, especially when you've experienced living and working abroad).

Because you'll cost them in exorbitant Supply teacher costs to cover your absence or early departure.

They want to check whether you are actually committed to working in the UK, as well as physically and legally able to.

And me mother's shoe size!!!

Yeah...I'm not a teacher though.

I just work in the education sector.

No, perhaps not, but rest of my response is still relevant.

School budgets are absolutely shot.

The school can't afford to cock up employing someone flakey, or someone who is going to go off sick with ongoing health problems or with stress within a couple of weeks/months.

They want to check you aren't seeing it as a transient role, you come for half a term and then move on to pastures new (because the world is huge and inviting, especially when you've experienced living and working abroad).

They want to check whether you are actually committed to working in the UK, as well as physically and legally able to.

"Aren't seeing it as a transient role".

Well people are allowed to leave jobs whenever they want, as long as they give one month's notice. You can't force anyone to stay in a job.

I looked up the job that I've been offered. I can see on LinkedIn that the last person who did this job, stayed in the job for six months. And that person is uk based.

I think in education, people move around alot. That's just the nature of it. If someone leaves, you have to hire someone else.

We are finding this right now.

We don't live in UK and my ds is having numerous interviews with British (and EU) companies for remote work.

Both of the British interviews so far, have followed similar 'stages'.

First is what he is calling a meet and greet. So a casual chat with a small focus on the actual job. Salaries etc not even discussed.
Next is an actual interview with same two people. Unless he asked, it didn't seem like the actual job (hours etc.) nor salary would be discussed.
He is lined up for yet another interview with this company this week, and perhaps this time he will be given an actual task which revolves around the job.

It seems such a waste of time. And he isn't even that keen on working for them anymore now as a result, as he seems to think everything will be dragged out like this.

So if anyone can let us know, how many more interviews should he expect? 😂

That's how I felt.

The company seemed so distrustful of me, I did start to think, do I want to work for them?

There are a lot of other jobs that I could do, which are not in the UK.

I'm questioning my decision about whether to work for this company now

She also has a UK passport

I had to produce my birth certificate and passport and go through a 'what would you do in this situation?' type interview to stack shelves in the supermarket where I work, so I think it's standard procedure (and I've never worked abroad and was applying from the UK).

I remember when I worked in a school that my DBS was a problem because at that point I didn't have a valid passport or a photo driving licence, so there was no photo ID for them to use...

Dbs merely means that you havent been CAUGHT doing anything dodgy It doesn't " prove" anything . My DS has numerous amounts of them simply because everything he even volunteers for requires one and seems to need a new one each time

I think in education, people move around alot. That's just the nature of it. If someone leaves, you have to hire someone else.

And is this how you feel an education establishment should best spend their limited budget? Does it occur to you that this is exactly the kind of non committal attitude they might be trying to weedle out as part of their application process?

DBS only identifies crimes proven in the UK. The number of references is probably to try to get comfort that there is nothing that’s happened outside of the UK that the DBS would normally have picked up

No. It's reality.

Work contracts are set up legally so that anyone can leave the job with a month's notice

That is the law. Companies know that.

No one is forced to stay in any job. That would be against the law.

I think UK hiring practices have become more difficult, not particularly in teaching, that’s always been very difficult, my eldest has been trying to get a part time job, most companies have a screening personality test before even before CVs get looked at, then if you pass that there’s group interviews and that last hours with all sorts of tasks, and that’s just for minimum wage jobs.

For teaching I’ve had to give 2 references, DBS, ID for right to work, copies of my certificates (including the GCSEs I did 30 years ago) full day interview including teaching and tasks and I’m told they had a detailed look at my social media too.

4 references seems excessive though. Were they not happy with the initial ones?

The UK jobs market is a nightmare at the moment - for data jobs you can expect 180 to 550 applications for one vacancy. This is down to too many candidates and too few data and analytical jobs. I applied for 3000 jobs and got 2 interviews (but zero offers of employment due to the other candidates being marginally better in the interview panels scoring of my interview answers). I've even had my CV updated professionally but even that didnt help! still looking for data work.

.

The man just said that he wanted more references, so that he had them on file, for when ofsted inspect them in the future?

He said that when ofsted go through the files in the future, he wants to show that he did his due dilligence in hiring practices.

At this point, I said no. And I said that two references should be sufficient.

I don't want all my previous employers to be contacted about me.

Sounds like he’s not really understanding requirements. OFSTED will look at hiring and people conducting interviews have to be trained in safe hiring, but more than 2 references isn’t needed, unless I guess there’s some sort of issue with one or both of the original ones.

In schools, your references need to cover the last 5 years. If your first two only knew you gor the last year, or two, that's why they need more.

This man is the reason for enhanced background checks for all school staff being deemed essential

www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/dec/17/soham.ukcrime2

Notice periods can be longer than one month, it depends what’s in your contract.

No references don't need to cover the last five years.

I said no to giving four references. And I really meant no.

I have the right to walk away from a job, if im not happy with the hiring process.

I have other job offers for other schools.

And if this particular job was going to insist on four references, after I had already given them a million other pieces of information, I had decided at this stage that I was going to walk away from this particular job. That I didn't want to do it anymore

I told him no, I wasn't going to give him four references.

And he agreed, and he said sorry about it to me actually. That he wouldn't ask for more and the two I had given him would be sufficient.

So they don't need references for the last five years.