Why are UK jobs so hard to apply to

[Arianasande]

I'm from the UK originally, but I've lived in other European countries for many years.

I work in education, but I'm not a teacher. I work in student services.

I've worked in many international schools and boarding schools.

I recently decided to come back to the UK. I applied for and I was offered a job in student services in the UK.

But omg the amount of checks! They did a DBS check on me. That came back fine.

Then they did a load of other checks on me. Which were their own company checks. These seemed to go on forever.

Then there were so many checks to make sure I had the right to work in the UK. I supplied my UK birth certificate at the start of the process. Which wasn't enough.

I provided two references which came back successfully. Then they asked me for another reference. Then they asked me for a fourth reference. At this stage I said no. And I said "normally two references are sufficient. "
The hiring man then said "well it's just that we like to do very thorough checks".

I was then talking to a teacher here in my international school. Shs is from the UK. And she said the same thing. She said that she was thinking about moving back to the UK, but that the amount of checks and the amount of hassle put her off. She applied for a job, and They also told her that one of her references was not good enough. So she decided to stay in her international school outside of the uk.

Its like they treat you like your are a criminal! I was wondering why it's like this.

I didn't ask if it was law, that's given.

I asked if you'd considered whether this attitude is the one they're trying to avoid hiring.

@wonderstuff your post is incorrect. I'm not going to quote it so that I don't highlight untrue facts on an important subject.

@Arianasande if you won't supply the additional references you won't be able to work in any school. Full stop.

He's right about ofsted. They will scrutinise the Single Central Record- which is the schools way of recording recruitment checks. This isn't about ofsted itself though, your questioning the Department for Education's insistence on high quality safeguarding.

The information you are being asked for is not negotiable.

No references don't need to cover the last five years.

They do in schools.

Same as my ds. He is just being very blasé about this next screening/chat/interview this week.

It isn't even anything close to a teaching job either.

I think it's very noticeable how regimented things are, when seeing it from another country.

You're not reading what I've written.

This is what happened.

He originally asked for two references. Both within the last five years.
I gave them. He told me that both of my references came back successfully.
He then asked for two more. Just to have extra references on file.

I said no. As at this stage I was starting to want to get away from the whole stressful process. I was willing to walk away.

He then apologised. And he said that my two original references are sufficient. I still have the job

So you saying "I won't be able to work in any school" is totally wrong. Read the thread.

I think there is reason for it. Our landlord was extremely stringent about checks -it was a total pain - but it turned out he'd had multiple tenants who lied on application and had no legal right to work in the UK, couldn't pay, and wouldn't leave. So from that perspective it makes sense

And try getting a DBS check if you don't have a passport or driving licence and most other supporting documents like household bills, bank statements and council tax are online only.

It’s education, so naturally a huge focus on safeguarding.
And you’ve been abroad. References are very easily faked or purchased, and the people they are communicating with for them are overseas, so not so easily validated.
Tbh, I feel happy and relieved hearing your story. It’s great they are taking it so seriously, and it means they do things properly. If you get the job, I imagine they’ll be great to work for and will give you great protection too.

Lol you're talking such rubbish.

"It's not negotiable".

I think me and my employer know that better than you, don't we.

It WAS negotiable. Me and my employer did negotiate.

I do have the job.

Are their any gaps in your employment history in the last 5 years @Arianasande? Or have you been employed by the two references you sent for that entire period?

Just to be clear for anyone that missed this part.

He originally asked me for two references. I gave them and they both came back okay. Both were from the last five years.

He then asked for two more. Just to have extra on file.

I said no. As I've worked in education for many many years and I've never been asked for more that two references. I felt this was extreme.

I said no, as I had the ability to walk away. I knew I had another job that I could go to. I didn't NEED this job. This job was one option for me

When i said no, the hiring manager then apologised, and he said that two references were sufficient.

First of all it is not the law that you only have to give a month's notice. Contractually teachers have to give notice by half term of the term they wish to leave. So that could mean giving notice in February to leave in April or it could mean giving notice in May to leave in July.

Under safeguarding procedures schools need a full interupted work history with reasons for any gaps (bringing up children etc). Two references might be sufficient for most but if they have any doubts they can and should ask for more. You working abroad will have complicated things and more checks need to be done.

And the law for right to work checks is that a birth certificate alone is not sufficient. A British passport is sufficient or a birth certificate along with a letter stating your national insurance number.

Overseeing the SCR and recruitment checks (in a really large secondary school) is part of my job as safeguarding lead.

Safer recruitment checks are not negotiable.

There are lots of reasons schools have to request extra references above the 2 you put on the application for. I went for the 5 years work history because its the most usual reason, but you say that's not the case. Gaps in work history is the next most frequent reason. Plus checking your right to work in the UK.

I'm answering to try and explain why this happened. And to stress that you're not being singled out.

Safer recruitment checks are arduous, time consuming and frustrating. But schools are so heavily checked on these, which very significant consequences for the smallest detail being overlooked, that its not difficult to see why they aim to over-do checks. The consequences of under-doing even one is dire. That's where ofsted come in.

The DBS and right to work checks are completely justified. The fines for getting right to work wrong are gigantic.

References - I’m not sure they’re generally worth much these days, most don’t say anything. I suppose they confirm you worked there.

Im not a teacher, as I've said before.

In my contract, it states that I need to give one month's notice.

Yes I gave my passport and birth certificate and ni number at the very start.

I can understand that they need to do checks.

My point is I've worked in schools and education settings in other countries, and the UK do far far far more checks than other European countries.

It's good in one way, in that everyone is safely checked.

But It's also bad, in that it causes a lot of stress for the person applying for the job. I was shocked as I wasn't used to it. They kind of treat you like you are a criminal

I began to think, do I really want to go through all of this.

I work in a non teaching role. But I was talking to a teacher in my school. She said that she applied for a non teaching role in the UK. She said she eventually quit the process as the application procedure was so extremely stressful

I just feel quite upset and stressed about the whole thing.

And now I'm thinking maybe I should have taken a non UK job.

Yes they are checking me, but I am also checking them as an Employer.

An interview is a two way street.

My point is I've worked in schools and education settings in other countries, and the UK do far far far more checks than other European countries.

It's good in one way, in that everyone is safely checked.

This is very true. Its also why extra precaution is taken when school staff have worked in schools overseas, because it's known that checks we consider necessary likely were not done by overseas schools.

Ian Huntley was the caretaker (so not a teacher) in the school of the two girls he murdered (and probably sexually abused, but we can never know thus because he burnt their bodies). If he had had better background checks before being given thr job in a school, the information was there to identify him as a risk to children. But checks were not thorough enough. So two girls died.

I posted a link about this earlier. This was the trigger for increased recruitment checks in UK schools. They are much more stringent than other counties. I'm pleased they are - there should be a "never again" way of thinking.

FYI @Arianasande - part of recruitment checks also includes a school being expected to check potential new recruits have a decent understanding of the needs for robust safeguarding. You're not coming across as passing that requirement very well, with your attitude displayed here.

@littlehangleton that's not what I'm saying. And if you think that EU schools hire staff without doing sexual offence checks , you're completely wrong.

For the school that I currently work in in Europe, I had to do a sexual offense crime check with the police.

That's standard. And that was fine.

A sexual offences check is standard for every job with young people. Everywhere. People expect that.

It's not the DBS check that stressed me out for this job in the UK.

It was their attitude. It totally put me off them. There is a way of doing checks, and also talking to the employee in an professional and kind manner.

For example, in the job I'm in now, (not in uk)they did a police check on me, then they sent me mails saying welcome to the team, we are happy to have you etc.

For this new UK job, I've just been receiving email after email, asking me for more and more information.

This has been going on for three weeks. They are sending me emails every day asking me for more stuff.

It got to the point where I didn't want to work for them anymore

I feel like im reading 2 separate threads. OP isn’t working in a uk state school is she? She’s working in a boarding school or university who don’t have to follow uk state schools
rules, obviously 😂

OP The uk is low trust and heavy on safeguarding- I think it’s likely you work in a country with lower safeguarding standards. However, the uk is also very process driven particularly in education and it’s highly possibly they haven’t stopped to think about why they want 5 years references and you’re dealing with a dilbert

Getting an interview is the hardest part about applying for a job in the UK. Being 1 in several hundreds of appliants is hard to get noticed. The checks is the easiest part really. DBS and Right to Work are not new - particularly in education and if you have a passport it shouldn't be a barrier.

You've pushed back on the additional references - I would have done to tbh, and they conceeded so there isn't an issue there.

It sounds to me as though you're anxious about the whole move back to the UK and the uncertainty of it all and you're honing in on this one part of the process which is quite straight forward but diffferent to what you are expecting and you've already been able to overcome it by providing the information.

They are looking to see if you've got something to hide.

If you've got nothing to hide, there wouldn't be any stress. You making it seem like you have something to hide by refusing, even if you actually have nothing to hide, is a safeguarding red flag.

If the school have robust safeguarding and safer recruitment (which it sounds like they do), the head teacher and/or safeguarding lead should have been informed by HR and questioned now being asked about your refusal.

What happens on from this will depend firstly on if the extra references were essential or not. If they were essential the job offer would be withdrawn.

But you've said they are not essential. So there will be a discussion happening. They didn't ask for these references for no reason. So the head and the HR manager will be balancing why they asked, the fact that you've refused, how easily they could re-advertise and re-recruit, how desperate they are to have someone in postwuickly, and lots of other stuff.

Bottom line - if you've nothing to hide, just given them the names snd contact details of the references being requested.

Or, as PP said, if actually this is you focusing on this issue to deflect from uncertainty you feel about moving to the UK, focus on exploring that, rather than this.

It’s not a state school though is it?

I've nothing to hide. I just felt like the whole process was becoming too extreme, and I knew that I had another job offer that I could take. That I didn't need this job. And that the hiring process for this job was just becoming too stressful. If they don't really want me, I will take the other job

So I just said to the hiring manager "I've given you two references, my passport, my birth certificate, my dbs check, my ni jumber" . For most other jobs that would be sufficient."

And he replied "I understand. It was just in case an extra check would be done on us in the future. But it's fine. Your two references are sufficient. Sorry"