To think how you look is still essentially the most influential thing in how people treat you?

[Uglybugly1985]

I appreciate I’m nearly 40 so that flush of youth is long gone but I was never good looking so it’s not a new thing but I do frequently notice that people who are attractive get treated differently.

I am kind, helpful, reasonably bright, have hobbies and interests but because I am ugly and fat what I have to say and how people respond to me is different from people who are attractive.

aibu to say actually if you’re ugly - I don’t mean average, I mean ugly like I am, it doesn’t actually matter about anything else? You are written off before you even begin!

I saw this in my 20s/early 30s but from the other side. I was always a slim size 8 but curvy (large boobs, hips) with a fairly pretty face. I found that in professional situations I was often instantly dismissed as a dolly bird, possibly exacerbated by my noticeable but not strong Scouse accent.

Working in a mid senior role for a large corporate based in the City of London/ the South East, in an industry with lots of middle class, older, sometimes privately educated white men from the Home Counties, I was regularly underestimated, dismissed and subject to assumptions being made about me and my capabilities. Thankfully these men usually only misjudged me once, as it was always quickly apparent that I was knowledgeable, capable and in my role due to my talent, drive and ability.

I’m now early 40s, still a size 8-10, still busty (albeit the ladies are more affected by gravity than they used to be!), with some lines and grey hairs proliferating by the week, but I do find those kind of dismissive encounters much, much rarer.

I think this is broadly true. Fortunately the beautiful female friends I have aren’t like this, which is how we’re friends!

I grew up completely oblivious to looks and how I looked, didn’t wear makeup for years and it’s only over time I’ve realised how much you’re judged on them. The positive is you’re ruled out by the bitchy women as friends and the shallow men for relationships which saves a lot of heartache.

It certainly is the case in the north west. It’s been driving me mad.

You don’t get a lot of time in interviews to correct a weird concept that someone has in their head about how you’re likely to perform in jobs based on what you look like and weird local yokel regional trends.

It was very much not the case in the Midlands of 10 years ago - most places were specifically training to not judge people and promote inclusivity.

This supports rather than proves the point - you are describing a range of very average people with different short comings. There are always outliers but my basic point is about looks projection overall rather than how people dress which in many groups is so similar but that's not the point.

It's that taking the whole overall look into account, people who score a 10 for facial beauty, style elegance and so on, tend to be friends with people scoring 9 or 10 too. I'm talking about objectively here so while people might argue about who is the most beautiful person which is subjective, there are objective standards. No one could credibly argue that a young Elizabeth Taylor, Sophia Loren, Claudia Schiffer and so on were ugly and not in the top % looks wise.

The 5s will be in groups of people who would be scoring 4s, 5s, and 6s.

The less than average looks congrate in friendship groups, the average congregate in average looks frienships groups, the exceptionally beautiful congregrate in exceptionally beautiful friendship groups. Then on top of that there is usually an overlay of similarity in basic style and income range. People wearing head to toe Loro Piana are unlikely to be sitting around with people wearing head to toe Primark.

My basic point was @Uglybugly1985 s point about looks though. Although you may get one or two out of range, most core friendship groups have people of similar attractiveness.

Yes, I agree, especially for women

When I had hair, people looked at me normally. Now ( due to chemo) I don’t have hair and people either stare or offer a head tilted half smile. Both fuck me right off. We remain a very judgmental society where looks are concerned ( in my view).

@Enigma53 that's hard to read. I'm sorry you have experienced that.

hope your chemo has a succesful outcome.

I would add to this that I think often attractive people get targeted by arseholes, particularly in dating. I knew a guy at work who was awful to women, cheated on every partner, super shallow and selfish - he deliberately went after and is now marrying a beautiful girl and I feel sorry for her.

If you aren't beautiful you're probably not going to be targeted by shallow dickheads in the same way.

If it bothers you then you can get it back. I’m mid 40s and feel better than I ever have and more visible than ever.

Yes good looking people get treated better automatically. However, when you’re good looking and over 25, I think it’s down to confidence, because not everyone has the same standard of beauty. People who’ve always been treated well will walk with their head held up, never cower apologetically and people will respond to that.

If you carry yourself with confidence you will be treated well. If you think you’re ugly and hold yourself small, you’ll be treated like a loser. You can be fat, and ‘ugly’ and walk into a room with your head held high, speaking with confidence and assertiveness like you are entitled to be there, and the seas will part.

That happened to me with road workers! I’d put on 5 stone. Very jarring.

I am 61, homely and dumpy and it is interesting watching the way others interact from the space of invisibility.

Pretty women get treated both well and horribly.
Striking women - could be looks, height, could be "put togetheredness", or confidence, have the ability to just walk through a room and garner positive comment.

Yep. I’ve lost just over 4 stone in the last 6 months and people are much nicer to me now, I’ve had a lifetime of being fat, I was obese in primary school, have had insults related to be8ng fat hurled at me on nights out, or just while walking down the street shouted out the window of cars as people drive past.

Now I’m size 12/14 people smile and say hi, they are more polite in shops and other public areas, it’s horribly glaring how much people judge and treat people based on shallow aesthetics.

I'm a people watcher...when I did the school run I used to observe who were the most popular women amongst other mums... overwhelmingly they were attractive but in a very non intimidating, non sexy way.

Oh and a great way to decifer if a man is a decent person is seeing how he treats unattractive women. Virtually all men can be nice to women they want to fuck....watch them with women they don't want to.

As I get older, I find that the types of people who pay me less attention are the type I don’t want attention from anyway.

Im attractive in a general sense - I have symmetrical features, a standard body shape and I’ve turned heads from men all my life - and I hate it. I don’t have the outgoing personality to go with it and don’t like any male attention. I’m nearing 40 now, and have noticed changes in my face in recent years, and that means less attention from Leary men - and I am more than happy with that.

The older I get, the more I know myself and that’s golden. Ive noticed I am also treated better by women as I get older, and that’s nice too. I don’t have a friendship group where we all look the same, that’s so weird.

People who care what you look like are insecure in themselves, and compare your level of ‘beauty’ to your value. I know this, as this has been me. To not care, is freeing, empowering and when life really begins.

I agree with this....alongside with attractiveness things like affluence, age, career, class, ethnicity, nationality, if you're single or have a man or not....

I don't actually think there's anything wrong with "birds of a feather flock together" attitude though.

I've learned to read the room and accept it for what it is.

I'm ND and was a late social starter and found it hard with social signals.

So I had some really humiliating situations where I was in groups where I clearly wasn't that wanted or accepted as I "thought" I wanted to be in the group.

I found all female groups especially hard as I think this hierarchical dynamic is very strong there.

I'm a lot more comfortable in open diverse groups of people where there is a mix of genders and backgrounds and metrics of achievement, and I'm sort of "mid" there.

I've found a few spaces like this and I'm sticking with them!

Sadly yes

I have been as small as a size 8 and as large as a size 20. My experience of being a size 20 and how people treated me was just so awful. People assume you don't care about your appearance, that it is so obvious you are large that it is OK to explicitly call you fat, make jokes about food/general appearance. Sadly IME YANBU.

I had a bit of an epiphany moment recently. I'm mid 40s and overweight and have always been plump in some way right since childhood. I'm pleasant looking and can be pretty but not a beauty and not at all memorable. It bothered me all my life, not helped by my much more attractive sister. My confidence isn't great due to my weight and ive wasted so much energy over the years disliking myself. I realised recently that I have had an immense privilege my whole life because I have a pleasant face and gentle voice and people tend to presume the best of me. Everyone is usually nice to me, men like me but I've never been objectified, women are friendly, kids like me. I've done nothing to deserve this! I tend to find daily interactions easy and and as a customer, employee, parent etc I tend to be treated well. It's only when I hear about other people's experiences I realise I have had it easy. I've started to appreciate this aspect of who I am and feel grateful. I would not have this experience if i was prettier or thinner or more successful or even taller.

It’s definitely about presentability: smart, clean, polite, confident. 1st impressions are 90% of how you are viewed by other humans.

And how your colleague handles the comments about her look is probably by not giving a shiny s**t! That in itself commands a certain level of respect!

As for thinking she is ugly, the OP is probably giving out a certain level of under confidence, which will affect that first impression!

OP, you need to work on yourself a little bit. I have been working for 44 years, and in all that time, I can honestly say that I have never thought that any of my colleagues were ugly! Everybody is different, so try to give yourself a break💐🍀

I was quite pretty when I was young and got a lot of attention (not in a good way) now I’ve aged quite a bit in menopause and gained weight. I am fairly invisible.

I like to think people get noticed for brains, humour, interesting personality too.

Agree but how you look is not just your natural look, it’s how much effort you make, what clothes you choose and all round how you decide to present yourself to the world, plus overall confidence, warmth, smiliness etc. Being fat doesn’t mean unattractive either.

So you could entirely change your first impression just with hair clothes attitude, make up if you wanted to.

Erm....no.

Yes and no. I think you are judged most on things that are visual but I think beauty comes fairly low down that list:

• are you a man?
• are you white?
• are you rich?
• are you under 60?

and then we get to beauty.