To be scared that woke now means respectful

[Tricho]

The Mickey Rourke saga on CBB has really got me quite scared for society.

What he said to Jojo was absolutely fucking disgusting, but 90% of the reaction I've seen on SM is "omg woke snowflakes offended by everything mickey to win legend" or words to that effect and it's made me wonder is that where we are now ?

Is it now woke to show basic respect to others differences ? Conversely is it a show of protest against "wokeism" to head back to using slurs because- free country.

It's made me really scared. More of my friends are experiencing having slurs shouted at them in the street now (dyke, mostky) this just didn't happen as little as five years ago. Do people now feel like they can say what they like???

Very scared for society.

My questions are highly pertinent.

Your point of view is that everyone should be allowed to say what they want, anything they want - if someone gets offended it's on them.

I'm holding that to account.

Answer them.

Aww bless. “I’m holding that to account. Answer them!”

My dear, you need to learn you cannot control other people as much as you wish you could.

You've really shown yourself up here.

It's not lost on anyone here that you're dodging questions that point out how idiotic your point of view is.

Should a man be able, well within his rights, encouraged even, to call you a slut?

Everything you need to know is in my first post. It answers all the questions you have asked in the first sentence, actually.

It's Mickey Rourke. His behaviour is totally inappropriate, but it's hardly surprising - he's got a history of poor behaviour - and I bet is something the producer's were hoping for. I think that says rather more about society in general that one has-been actor behaving as everyone expects.

Put a dinosaur on TV and watch him be a dinosaur. What else did anyone expect?

Going on Celebrity Big Brother and complaining about being badly treated is like taking part in a boxing match and complaining about being punched.

So you endorse racist, misogynistic and homophobic language in the pursuit of free speech.

Glad we all know where you stand.

Free speech is a complicated concept.

it doesn’t mean that there will be no consequences for your speech. If you say something that upsets or offends someone then they are well within their rights to have a go back at you.

I don’t watch BB and I didn’t see the incident in question. I gather he said something offensive and was told it was offensive.

sounds reasonable to me.

one of the reasons people find “woke” difficult is because they will say something that they think is reasonable and be told they are homophobic and you can’t say that.

in some ways being told “you can’t say that” is very unhelpful - obviously you can, you just did, what people generally mean is that it will offend someone (sometimes themselves sometimes not) but often people do value the ability to speak freely including insults and similar above their own and other’s right to not be offended.

I have the opposite issue. I’m finding that people are easily offended and like we all have to walk on eggshells to not accidentally say the wrong thing or say something that comes across the wrong way to the point where I wouldn’t be surprised where race is concerned if it has the opposite effect and makes white people like me avoid people of other races in general so that we don’t go to prison when they get offended

CBB is mostly scripted I believe. So I'm not inclined to think anything about any of it.

However - there is a back and forth with all kinds of terms like "woke". Of course the original sense was people becoming aware of certain kinds of justice issues.

More recently with the rise of identity politics and progressive authoritarianism, the meaning changed somewhat, largely IMO because there were these idiots who clearly couldn't see past the ends of their noses claiming to be fighting on the side of justice while trying to shut down others - sometimes even people from the group they were supposed to be "helping".

It's easy to see why the word woke started to be used ironically for such people - blind to reality while claiming special insights. I would say the original use isn't recognized much now, in part because the new meaning is more dominant, but it was also a little retro even before that, in the way slang terms often change quickly.

There are people who will, like the MR character, claim people legitimately objecting to asshole behaviour are "woke". And there are also silly people who claim the self-righteous I'd politics type are "just being kind/polite/fair whatever". There are a lot of dumb people in society is all, who aren't very careful about language.

I don't think that understanding that some people are just assholes is particularly dangerous.

It's not the same as saying that someone's comment is great, or they are a great person ( though in my work I deal with some very rough people who occasionally say things that I am sure you would object to, but they are basically good people. They aren't mutually exclusive.)

Individuals being overly reactive and upset as comments by assholes is mainly hurtful to themselves. Life is a lot better when you can hear someone say something you don't like and not let it bother you personally.

No, you don’t know where I stand.

You can’t control other people. You can only control yourself and how you react to things.

It makes for a miserable life if you’re gonna get all bent out of shape at the assholes in the world. You can’t control them, and there are always gonna be more assholes.

So what if you’re offended? Dust yourself off and move on. Make a mental note to stay away from them. Enjoy your life surrounded by good people that make you happy.

Don’t stew over people and things you can’t control. You’ll drive yourself miserable trying to do so.

Freedom of speech isn't freedom from consequences, as the likes of Katie Hopkins, Joey Barton, Laurence Fox and Stephen Yaxley - Lennon have found out.

Hate speech has legal consequences. Incitement, slander etc carry legal punishments.

Resilience isn't what you think it is either. It's not being able to accept horrible insults being thrown at you, it's the ability to stand up and call them out.

Because you take pride in being a thick skinned insensitive person, that doesn't mean it's a weakness in others if they do have standards and do get offended by bigotry, racism, misogyny etc.

🙄 if you’re worried you can’t avoid prison by being around people who aren’t white, by all means please do continue to avoid us. It makes life much easier for us all.

just now it takes one comment interpreted as racism for someone to face some kind of consequence and maybe even prison. It’s easy to accidentally say something that’s racist and not mean to offend anyone. There are people who get very offended very easily and would happily throw someone in prison for a mistake. And it’s not on

What do you think you're in danger of saying that might be construed as racist, pray tell?

When has someone been put in prison for a mistake?

A genuine mistake

The headlines are often misleading. Eg the case of the man arrested for praying who actually had form for it and refused to move on after an hour and half pf police negotiations from an abortion buffer zone.

I think that the bigger question is why are those that produce and run CBB being held to account for producing this in the first place?
they are the ones that are deliberately putting these people together knowing exactly what they are like and knowing that it will create a huge issue that serves no purpose other than to garner publicity for the show.

Woke has meant respectful for ages, in my view. If someone accused me (and the word ‘woke’ is usually used in an accusatory way) then I’d view that as a compliment meaning that I was respectful.

Ultimately, woke is a crap tabloid/boomer/far-right concept for anything they don't like or associate with liberal politics. I hope woke is synonymous with respect because it might make people think twice before calling respectful behaviour 'names' or claiming people shouldn't have choices over how they present themselves. As a linguist and grammar lover, using they as a singular pronoun has never sat comfortably with me, but if that is what someone prefers, then that's what I call them. Just like if someone called Daniel prefers to be called Dan or Danny, I'm not insisting on calling him Daniel because that's what's on his birth certificate.

If "woke" means respectful, then why are so many "woke" people disrespectful of other peoples views?

Was that the context? Still a v unpleasant comment. I'm bi & my lesbian friends still get horrible shit of the 'correcting your sexuality' flavour from men online & in person. It's easy to make out it's due to oversensitivity when you don't face that kind of thing. Having it on TV just legitimised it

I have no idea why so many people drool over 91/2 weeks anyway. It's a fucking creepy film...the 50 shades of the 80s!

Hmm, do you think it was all a performance then? I certainly think Jojo's relationship w Chris seems staged. Either way it was unacceptable for MR to say that, if Jojo was colluding that's awful. A lot of comments online I've seen have been defending MR v unpleasantly, either way CBB was happy then to stir bigotry up to get views.

Do you know what MR sais though? I agree partly w you, but it WAS by any judgement a horribly lesbophobic & misogynistic comment. Corrective rape & harassment of lesbians in apps or in public still happens too often, esp in the US. This kind of open bigotry fuels. Can you appreciate that point at all....?