To find this outlook irritating? Ageing and looks

[Youwantlove40]

I've seen several threads here where a poster says they're feeling down about ageing/gaining weight/general changes to appearance.
Instantly, someone comes along to say their relative/friend died young and would have done anything to be here and wrinkled so you shouldn't care at all about your appearance or ageing ever again.

It's very black and white thinking. Whilst it's of course incredibly sad that these people lost their lives young, you are allowed to be grateful to be alive and also want to improve your appearance, they aren't mutually exclusive.

It's on every ageing thread. I know there's nothing we can do to stop ageing, but if someone having botox or a facial or other treatment makes them feel good about themselves then why not?

if someone having botox or a facial or other treatment makes them feel good about themselves then why not? This is bigger question than you're making out really. Is it better to have the treatment or to adjust your mindset to not mind so much about appearance?

Questions about appearance/treatments often lead to deeper discussions.

improve your appearance this again prompts debate on threads as 'improve' is subjective.

Because we are all ageing all the time - it is not an optional activity. The only alternative to ageing is death.

I find the posts saying “I’m 32 and looks like cack” kind of annoying - this is probably as good as it’s going to get, so you need to reframe NOW or you are going to depress yourself big time.

I am post menopause (or whatever the correct term is!) and after a lifetime of looking great most of the time, and not naturally I put a lot of effort in, I suddenly look awful. It’s like I’ve gone downhill on a skateboard.
Have given up on Botox, gave me terrible headaches, had fillers once and I got a huge lump. I try everything else.
A really good friend of mine died in her sleep recently. I have never lost anyone so quickly before.
It has really shocked me as I have realised the value of actually being here.
However, it doesn’t mean I’m delighted to look in the mirror. I’ve still got a beard.
I can remember my mum at my age and she had none of these issues and neither did her friends. It was just accepted that they were in their 50’s, they looked older than they did before. My mum was a really smart dresser, too, but she never looked younger than her age. She was actually really content at my age.
She died at just 70, which now feels young to me, and I think if the same happened to me I don’t want to spend this next part of my life feeling sad because of how I look.

Aging v death : is a shutting down the conversation option, which is sanctimonious and heavy handed.

Its good to put aging into perspective, it's a privilege that not everyone enjoys. Also if society went back to respecting experience and life wisdom and not promoting the youth culture above everything else, we might all be more content.

Yes, it’s ridiculous. It’s condescending and it’s irritating. Women must not care about how they dress look but at the same time they must always look good.

On style and beauty someone always says that they don’t care how they dress. I have to say that I often look at their posting history and they have always posted something that is akin to whatever it is they are deeming so vacuous.

It's not unreasonable to want to look as good as you can - rightly or wrongly we are judged on appearance and it can have real, material effects on career/finances in certain circumstances. We live in a society that values youth and beauty highly! At the same time, we do have to accept that we are ageing and won't always look the way we might choose, so do have to reframe our thinking and learn to appreciate the process.
So both things can be simultaneously true.

YANBU to be irritated by the 'You're lucky if that's all you have to worry about' type responses (on any threads, not just aging/beauty ones). However, I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking that the pressure to 'improve' your appearance, or the increasing normalising of botox, fillers etc are a bad thing. I think it would generally be a good thing if people were less preoccupied by their appearance.

Everything in life is surely better dealt with by acceptance, looking toward the positive, and an inner calm rather than frantically working against the natural order of things because culturally we are told that older people have no value because of their looks?

If you look around, extremely few people in society look like the representatives we see in the media. We all mostly look average and going through life with this level of angst about our looks is really not healthy, and a waste of time, because you'll never win this battle.

The older I get the more beauty I see in the average, especially older women. I notice beautiful eyes, warm faces, lovely smiles, a nice outfit etc. There is plenty of beauty there although we are told there isn't.

I like that perspective dictators beauty everywhere, just not the unrealistic Instagram kind.

While I wouldn’t outwardly disparage anyone for having Botox/work done etc, I do find it extremely sad and I do wish none of it existed or wish that women would turn their backs on it.

There seems to be an eradication of being human in the practice. And not just with ageing, but for simply what we look like.

I have been thinking increasingly for a while how I miss women on television and in film looking different, looking like normal (albeit still conventionally attractive) women.

They all just look entirely the same, and it’s incredibly sad.

Yes improve is subjective. I personally don't think filler in lips 🐤 and cheeks improves a face, its awful. Fake. Those awful huge teeth that glow in the dark 😂 obviously those people have massive problems with self-esteem.

Completely different from a decent haircut and some make up

I think its very normal to feel better when you look better. Dont think that's a mindset that needs changing. If your having a good hair day for example it lifts your mood compared to an awful hair day. Obviously if your just hanging around at home it makes no difference but if your out and about then these little things make a difference.

Its completely normal for people to change their appearance from dying hair, getting rid of grey hair, wearing makeup, gaining or losing weight deliberately, botox, surgery etc. All very normal human behaviour.

I actually think it’s a helpful way of thinking about it. Aging is a privilege. It’s not to say you can’t try to look ‘good’ as you age, but a relentless pursuit of looking young and feeling bad for getting older is an unhealthy outlook. Aging gracefully, with help if you want it, is fine.

@PeggyMitchellsCameo . Wise words.
The point is that, for women, it's still a crime to age. We're not accepted as wise with grey hair and wrinkles. The pressure to use Botox etc is increasing. "Looking young for your age" is the ultimate compliment.
I agree with you, deaths of contemporaries do give pause for thought.

I'm in my early 30s and a lot of my friends are getting Botox. I think it's a shame - we aren't 20 and don't need to look it! Being able to accept ageing is important.

There is taking reasonable care of your skin, hair and body, taking care to be presentable, and there is being absolutely bloody obsessed with appearance. Whenever somebody starts a “I hate how I look” thread and posts a photo they are invariably gorgeous.

What about accepting your appearance in general? If someone wants to get a tweakment to look better (with the added benefit it may make you look younger). Do you do nothing to make yourself look better?

A great deal of that pressure comes from other women though.

Ageing reminds us of death. It’s too simplistic to set it up as one versus the other.

There is a cohort of women who love to tell other women off for caring about their appearance in the name of feminism. Interestingly its almost always targeted towards older women. There's no little irony in the implication that wanting to look nice is no longer necessary once you've passed the optimum age to interest men. After which you no longer need to care, so should fade into invisibility, and simply be glad to be still breathing in and out.

Yeah I hear what you're saying , I just think personally that adding makeup enhances how you look- getting Botox age 33 is just trying to change your appearance because it's not acceptable to start having a few lines .

Internalised misogyny. Older women hold wisdom. For some, that's unacceptable. Far better to diminish older women as "hags" or "crones" or use menopausal as an insult.
The ageism on these threads is sometimes awful. I find that sad.

I would say makeup is used to change appearance. Darker longer eyelashes, increased eyebrows, pinker cheeks, better overall skin colour, less undereye darkness, redder lips, the list goes on. Botox doesnt drastically change anything it just decreases how visible lines are in the skin when you move a certain facial muscle. You still look like you just smoother.

It's about balance surely. Of course, noone should be obsessed to the point of neurosis about their looks but equally, I think the responses of "just be glad you arent dead" are really minimising. I wonder if those people would ever say that to a friend? - "oh your dog has just been put down?- well at least you arent dead", "oh you had an upsetting thing happen at work?- at least you arent dead", "oh, you had an argument with your husband?- at least you arent dead" etc. By this rationale, none of us are allowed to express sad feelings about anything at all.

There are much kinder ways to support someone in exploring why the loss of their looks might be upsetting to them than trotting out the "at least you arent dead" line. The thing is- it's often not solely about appearance, it's a physical sign of ageing and that brings up all sorts of fears for people about their own mortality and the changes of time. Sometimes when these are explored and reflected on, the grip on wanting to look younger can be more easily let go.

Yes, OP, someone does always come along and say that because it’s actually quite an important point to make. Changing your mindset can be healthier (and is certainly cheaper) than changing your face with endless tweakments.

As PPs have pointed out, ageing is not optional, but anti-ageing treatments are, and people’s opinions on those vary - so to unilaterally label them as ‘improvements’ could also be considered an irritating outlook.

Having said that, these threads always seem to me to be fairly balanced. Yes, there’s some wider, often interesting, discussion around how women are expected to present themselves. But equally, I’ve never seen anyone berated for wanting to give themselves a boost or explore their options - there’s always plenty of support and advice.