To find this outlook irritating? Ageing and looks

[Youwantlove40]

I've seen several threads here where a poster says they're feeling down about ageing/gaining weight/general changes to appearance.
Instantly, someone comes along to say their relative/friend died young and would have done anything to be here and wrinkled so you shouldn't care at all about your appearance or ageing ever again.

It's very black and white thinking. Whilst it's of course incredibly sad that these people lost their lives young, you are allowed to be grateful to be alive and also want to improve your appearance, they aren't mutually exclusive.

It's on every ageing thread. I know there's nothing we can do to stop ageing, but if someone having botox or a facial or other treatment makes them feel good about themselves then why not?

I agree.

I have a friend who is my age (late 30s) who has just been diagnosed with terminal cancer. She isn't going to see her young kids grow up, and that's heartbreaking and really made me appreciate life.

I still wake up every single morning and put on nice clothes, do my hair and makeup, even if we aren't going anywhere, and I don't ever intend to 'age gracefully' or stop making myself look nice. My nan was 91 when she died, had poor health her entire life and up until the day before she died, when she was in hospital knowing she was in the last couple of days of life, asked my auntie to put her curlers in and give her the Estee lauder lipstick she wore her whole adult life.

For some people, looking good is important, for whatever reason. For others, it's less important. Both are absolutely fine but for those who do decide they want to do things to their appearance are judged for being shallow.

Personally, I I tend to live as long as possible and age disgracefully. I'll be the tattooed woman with a full face of makeup, died platinum hair and bright long nails in the retirement home...

I agree with you, this is why I said it’s not a good thing if delivered with sneering and contempt. Agree it’s not wisdom to look down on others.

I think there’s a difference between taking a pride in your appearance and pumping your face and lips full of unnecessary chemicals in order to conform to”beauty standards”. .

I am in my sixties now . My face is wrinkled and jowly, and my skin is dull. I feel that going down the fillers/ surgery route is a bit pointless now and tbh I’d rather spend my money on enjoying myself.
But in some ways it’s easier now. I look at younger women and I don’t feel jealous. I do however hope they appreciate how good they look. I only did this in retrospect and I wish I’d enjoyed it more at the time. I do still care about looking good however. I get my nails done and pay lots at the hairdressers. I go to the gym and watch my weight. I can afford to buy the clothes I like and I am definitely no longer interested in dressing for the male gaze. So I wear what I like and don’t worry about what anyone else likes.
My expectations of myself are lower in a way. I want to look good but in a way that reflects my style. I don’t feel in competition with anyone. Maybe that’s acceptance.

I do think the level of ageism towards women is very sad though . As is the pressure placed on younger women to look “ Instagram” good. I hate that some women feel that the only way to feel validated is to have male attention.

Yes. The idea that older women who don't care about their looks have acquired a superior wisdom and enlightenment that has bypassed the rest of us thickets who do, is intensely irritating. Any woman with even the most rudimentary knowledge of feminist issues will be well aware of the issues pertaining to womens' appearance, and within that knowledge, we are old enough and wise enough to decide how we wish to navigate them.

Is there? Where’s the line?

I have Botox and filler for my marionette lines. Too far? I dye my grey hair. Is that ok?

Do you really need me to explain the difference between putting on some lipstick and pumping your face full of toxic chemicals?

You probably do to be fair. Because we are talking about the overarching principle of women wanting to change, enhance or improve upon their natural appearance. You either feel that aligns with your principles or you don't. After that it's merely a matter of degree and where on the trajectory that goes from getting your hair cut and coloured to full on surgery you personally want to draw the line.

There's an element of snobbery about it too.
A microneedling facial is deemed ok, 'pumping your lips full of chemicals' is not. Where is the line drawn?

I think some draw it at the point they genuinely believe is harmful. People have a fear of procedures. They read the horror stories that make the headlines and decide they're dangerous. Which is fair enough. The part I take issue with is is when they then use their line to seperate themselves (the higher minded sensible ones) from other women (the vain, irresponsible low self esteem inferior ones) unable to see that they are putting on lipstick for the exact same reasons other women are having lip fillers. The motivation is no different, the intended result is the same (to feel nicer) it's only the means of execution that seperates them.

Eh? I accept wrinkles but that doesn’t mean I want my skin to feel like sand paper so keep it moisturised. I embrace my changing looks but still want to look my best. It’s not one or the other. Just because I’m getting older (and happy to!) doesn’t mean I just have to give up caring about my appearance

Was about to say something similar, I sometimes think that women who make very little effort with their appearance think they are in some way morally superior to women who do
Maybe because of the notion that vanity is a sin
Also some of the women who make no effort seem to try and make women who do feel bad possibly to prevent them from doing it so then they are all in the same boat
My mother ( who actually dresses well but rarely wears makeup ) has always seemed to frown at women who made what she considered a big effort with their appearance she would say things like ‘ nail polish is for people with too much time on their hands’ or ‘ I saw such and such a person in town and she was all dressed up to the nines even though the particular woman wouldn’t have been really dressed up at all, she definitely thought she was superior to them as she wasn’t ‘ plastered in make up’

Ok but you said facials, why not just use moisturiser? You talk about accepting how you look but also apply makeup to make yourself feel more beautiful- who told you you arent beautiful without makeup? I still feel there is 'snobbery' towards injectables. People are still influenced by society and media about what is deemed acceptable if they are putting on makeup or getting facials.

I also hate to see young women (or men) obsessed with their looks. I hate to see society telling us that, at any age really, looking good means wearing a mask. I find it beautiful to see a person's character and temperament on their face, which is why I find older people often so beautiful- they are less often masked to the same extent, or they are less effectively masked. You can see their experience and thoughtfulness written on their faces.

And the people who wouldn't do injectables as they consider it putting harmful chemicals in their body I wonder if that means they never drink alcohol. Or never eat highly processed food. Injectables don't stay in the body forever the body naturally breaks them down. Lip filler is hyaluronic acid which is naturally found in the body.

Disagree with you. People need perspective.

And the people who wouldn't do injectables as they consider it putting harmful chemicals in their body I wonder if that means they never drink alcohol

This reminds me of a woman at work who is always holding forth on her scathing opinions of women who "smear chemicals all over their face" and yet she drinks like a fish. Alcohol is a carcinogen but I guess thats ok in her mind because its something she likes, so it simply doesn't count 😂

I've been thinking lately that by and large, unless they have a particularly hard life, most women basically look 'young' until early to mid 40s (I'm 47 BTW).

I reckon most of the 'signs of aging' people complain of in their 30s or, god forbid, 20s, like fine lines, are not at all noticeable unless someone is staring at you an inch from your face looking for them, which you'd hope people are not doing!

But yeah, by early/mid 40s you do start to get things that might more obviously age you, like deeper lines around mouth or nose. I was always 'young looking' but I've definitely noticed that since my mid 40s people have stopped being suprised when I mention my age, which they pretty much always used to express on hearing it for the first time. And I'm fine with that, as I can't see any reason I need to look young, to be honest.

All those bros online who crow about women being undesirable or 'hitting the wall' after 24 or 21 or whatever, I reckon that if you showed them a selection of conventionally attractive women with similar make up on between 21 and 35 they wouldn't know which ones were 'over the hill' they have invented.