to wish that a few more MN's had seen my thread today......

[Pixiepants]

Here and then taking advantage of the AIBU threads to see if I can drum up a bit more support for this subject?

I probably am, but hey.....

Many of the RF seats we have here in Norway can be installed with a lap belt. Read your instruction manual carefully to check if yours can.

Is it legal to use US car seats in the UK?

Why is it such an issue about the legs? The child will let you know if it is painful, many children sits in "buddaposition" or with bent legs. Parents often thinks that this is dangerous or painful for the child and wrongly turn their children FF. Children are not little adults ;)

no idea if it's legal or not, never occured to me before today! it's a car seat, it's made by graco, graco sell car seats here. I'm not very deep thinking. It's only when I started reading this thread that I even realised it was unusual cos the weight rear facing goes up to 18kgs.

you're right, she can sit rear facing til she's old enough to complain if its uncomfy, then I'll have to see where we go from there.

Yes ;)

What are the recommendations in the UK about five point harnessing? Here we use boosters from ca. four years age(or older if they stay RF beyond four).

I'm glad I found this thread (good of MN to highlight it on the front page) because DD is on the verge of growing out of her MC Cabrio (14 months and, although only 9kg, her head is getting near the top). I had no idea that rear facing seats for older children existed, but definitely want to try and get one now.

We don't actually have a car, so I'm looking for something that's easy to strap in taxis etc. I saw MrsAki's message on babyworld.co.uk saying the Maxi Cosi Mobi is out of stock until June/July following a recall - hopefully DD won't hit the top of the Cabrio before then. Having said that, toddler.se (our best hope of getting one, since we live in the Czech Republic) might have a backlog of orders.

Hi MissHH. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on here. Sure someone can fill you in on the five point harnessing...I'm still gathering info on RF this eve.

Annasias That test link is really helpful. (Although thought you'd sent me a vacuum cleaner link for a few mins..PMSL )

Pixiepants, I have a few questions if that's ok?

Firstly, in the pictures you linked to the child was in the middle rear seat because clearly her seat would not fit behind the front seats so how does that work with 2 kids under 3?

Secondly, in the South Today clip, all the crash tests were with seats strapped in with a seatbelt. None seemed to be isofix. I have seen isofix crash tests which showed very little seat movement at all because it absorbs the impact. This leads to far less movement of the child. Also both my Britax isofix seats have inserts which cup the head.

I drive an X5 and DH drives BMW5series (both big cars) and when the seats are in the back there isn't even room for anyone to sit between them. DS's knees are also already touching the passenger seat.

So are strapped rear facing safer than isofix?

cushioncover have a look at the piture of my rear facing seat by clicking on my name, the seat is behind the drivers seat, and you can see how DS (2.9 years)legs fit, just a slight bend of the knee, no more then when you sit in a chair. My seat is isofix only and can not be fixed with a belt

If the car seat is correctly installed using the cars seat belt there is no difference in the safety between a car seat installed with isofix and a car seat fastened with seat belts. But isofix reduces the change of of installing the car seat wrong.

But a correctly installed RF seat installed with the cars seatbelt is safer than a FF seat with isofix(if that's what you meant?)

vesela : I find the Britax Two Way Elite(or Two Way Plus) easy to install in many different cars. It can be installed with either a lap belt or a 3 point belt. It also have alternatives for installation in cars with short seat belts.

Of couse it's ok to ask Cushioncover, but before I answer, you have to know that I'm learning as I go...MrsAki knows this stuff inside out and I'm mainly quoting her brilliant website www.rearfacing.co.uk.

The 'fitting in car' issue has been covered a few times on this ever increasing thread and basically they fit most cars.

I'm just going to link you to this. It's alot to read through but the ref's to the crash tests dummys might answer your question as to why even isofix FF are not as safe as 'belt-fixed' RF.

And also point you in the direction of Annasias link on page 8, which I can't do a quick link to
www.rearfacing.co.uk/documents/rf%20press%20release.pdf?

Hope it helps and glad you're interested enough to ask

Oh, and I'm not sure what the inserts that cup the head are but they'd I'm guessing they're for comfort when LO's nap rather that being able to protect their vulnerable necks and spines in the unfortunate event of a collision.

Duh. That first link is not the one I meant CC...Sorry.

Crash Test Dummy info you seen this www.rearfacing.co.uk/documents/rf%20press%20release.pdf? Here

Cringe!!! I mean Here

Going to bed as I'm clearly not functioning anymore

Thanks swallowsandamazons. I don't think that's too expensive. Just to convince DH now. Mind you, he'll just do what he's told on these matters. If he wants to do the research then he can have an opinion... until then it's my decision lol.

As Pixiepants has mentioned in a PP, yes, strapped in rear facing seats are safer than forward facing isofix seats. Isofix is a way to come to terms with the fact that so many people instal their seats incorrectly (7/10 seats are installed incorrectly in the UK). With isofix, the risk for incorrect installation is dramatically reduced. That is what makes them safer.

The main problem with forward facing seats is the neck. When your child if forward facing and the car is involved in a collision, the child's body willo be thrust forward. The harness will catch the body and keep it in place but there is nothing to catch the head and keep the head in place, apart from a very tiny little neck. Now, a child's head makes up 25% of his body weight. If adults has the same proportions, our heads would weigh over 20 kg. Just imagine having 20 kg on your shoulders! In addition to the heavy head, the child's spine is mainly made of cartilage. It has to be as the child is growing a lot and the spine has to grow with the child. On an adult, the vertibrae in the neck have little "hook"-like protrudings and can hook together. Children don't have this at all, which makes them much more vulnerable in an accident. The main injury among young children in car accidents is damage to the neck or head. We all know what happens to someone when the neck breaks. It doesn't bear thinking about.
In a rear facing seat the child's head and neck are cradled by the seat. The force of the impact is distributed along the back of the seat and the child is protected. I read a report the other day (unfortunately not public yet so I cannot link to it) which showed dramaticly differences in forces applied to the neck in rf and ff seats. The table in the PDF linked to above (and again here) will also illustrate this. Note that forces above 1000 Newton are dangerous... Also look at the other table showing the difference in children injured in car accidents in Sweden (rf is standard) and the UK (ff is standard). For children 1 year and younger there is not much of a difference at all as all children in both countries are rear facing, but as soon as parents in the UK turn their children around, their injury statistics double compared to Sweden. According to the AA, about 22 children die in car accidents in the UK every year. Last year 2 children died in car accidents in Sweden. One drowned as the car ended up upside down in a lake, and the other was involved in a side impact crash at 90 km/h. Before that, Sweden has a period of 17 months without a single death.

7/10 seats incorrectly Poor children if their car is in an accident.

I sent this thread to Mr Vine on Radio 2

Keep us posted s and a

Hello all,

I am looking at the BeSafe Izi Kid one, and one of the reports is in Sweedish... anyone can translate this bit:
"OBS! Stolen är T-godkänd upp till 25 kg och kan alltså användas upp till 25 kg på samtliga platser i bilen."

Volvo Bristol sell the Britax Fixway for about £260 including base... Is the base the same as or a forwad facing one, anyone knows?

Thanks!

Thanks, MissHH. Looking at the britax.se website, there also seems to be a Britax Multitech - anyone got any opinions about them? It's rear-facing until 4 and then ff from 4-6. I'll see if I can find a place in Sweden able to ship a Britax to the Czech Republic.

I should probably call the Britax line in the UK, too, though, to register my interest

Thanks, everybody, for all this, especially MrsA.

and Pixiepants

The Brio Zento also looks good, and toddler.se stock it. So might go for that one.

Vesela - have you tried the in car safety centre in Milton Keynes. They sell the Britax twoway (rearfacer up to 25kg), which I have and am pleased with (although you can't vary the angle of recline). Also sell the Nordic They do mail order - very helpful people and may be able to ship to you.
incarsafetycentre.co.uk

That's kind vesela, but just knowing that a few more people are aware that there are alternatives is thanks enough.

Good Luck sourcing yours. As differentid pointed out earlier in the thread, it's certainly not the easiest option is it? (yet ]

Update on my own situation...Thanks to Annasias's help, I might be able to avoid the 300mile round trip to buy one, as Volvo in Bristol can get hold of the Britax 6-Way (Isofix) and their own version of the Secura Highway? (Belt fix). The guy there is just checking that he can fit it for me before ordering. These are both tested up to 18kg (401bs) and as pocket pixie is quite slight this should do us for a while. The height is another factor for us as she's long, but I think most of the seats have the same back height. (Bum to seat top approx 58cm).

Therefore Pixie's Carseat viewing centre isn't likely to be open for business for a little while longer...but the offer still stands once ours is up and running.

Have also suggested to our road safety officer that if nothing else, would it be possible for him to visit 'In Car Safety' (Milton Keynes) to learn how to properly fit their stock. Therefore parents in Bristol could buy by mail order knowing that someone could double check the fitting for them. Very cheeky, I know, but no harm in askin'

"I am looking at the BeSafe Izi Kid one, and one of the reports is in Sweedish... anyone can translate this bit:
"OBS! Stolen är T-godkänd upp till 25 kg och kan alltså användas upp till 25 kg på samtliga platser i bilen.""

Translation: Note: the seat is T-marked (Swedish standard set much higher than ECE standard) for children weighing up to 25 kg and can thus be used for children weighing up to 25 kg placed anywhere in the car (front seat, back seat middle, back seat side)."

The Britax Nordic Fixway is a rf isofix seat.

Vesela, before you buy the Brio Zento, I want to show you this test result testfakta. It is in Swedish so I will explain it a bit. The top bit lists pris (including support leg), where it can be palced in the car and the company contact details.
Second bit is safety. Grades from 1 to 5 has been given where 5 is the best and 1 is very poor. The safety areas Head, Neck, Chest and been checked and then a total score (in bold) and a comment.
The last bit is about user friendliness, i.e. how easy it is to angle the position, adjust the straps, instal it, weight (of seat) etc. At the top of this section is a score for user fiendliness.
This test was carried out at higher speed than usual tests, but was done at the reputed VTI in Sweden and the results verified.
I will let the results speak for themselves.