To think that withholding the truth and outright lying are two different things?

YourRedFinch · 2025-04-09T09:32:33+00:00

Some people say “a lie by omission is still a lie” but is it really the same as actively making something up? Where do you draw the line?

WhoMeMissYesYouMiss · 09/04/2025 10:35

Deception is deception. However, sometimes there are reasons to lie or to withhold the truth.

ShruggedHugely · 09/04/2025 10:35

Do you mean morally/legally/philosophically? is there a particular example you're thinking of?

PsychoHotSauce · 09/04/2025 10:38

If the person is deceived by what you choose to say and what you choose to omit, then it's a lie. If the person you're talking to makes reasonable but incorrect assumptions based on what you leave out, you know exactly what you're doing and you know you are lying.

FinishLast · 09/04/2025 10:41

Depends on the context @YourRedFinch. You need to provide more details.

WoodyOwl · 09/04/2025 10:41

I agree. You aren't obliged to tell everyone everything - it doesn't make you a liar.

Some people just want a response and they fill in the rest for themselves.

Eg.

Q: Do you like my dress?
A: It's so shiny/frilly/sparkly/bright!

In my experience, 9 times out of 10, the person asking will just say thanks. If they really want to know your opinion, they'll ask again. Yes, it might be more honest to say "no, I hate it!" But why yuck someone else's yum?

Original poster

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 10:41

ShruggedHugely · 09/04/2025 10:35

Do you mean morally/legally/philosophically? is there a particular example you're thinking of?

I suppose I mean morally more than legally though I’m aware it can overlap. I’m just thinking about situations where someone leaves out a key detail but doesn’t technically lie, versus making something up entirely.

Like if someone didn’t tell their partner they’d met up with an ex - they didn’t lie if they weren’t asked but it’s still withholding. Is that as bad as saying “I didn’t see them?” That kind of thing.

OP posts:

WoodyOwl · 09/04/2025 10:43

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 10:41

I suppose I mean morally more than legally though I’m aware it can overlap. I’m just thinking about situations where someone leaves out a key detail but doesn’t technically lie, versus making something up entirely.

Like if someone didn’t tell their partner they’d met up with an ex - they didn’t lie if they weren’t asked but it’s still withholding. Is that as bad as saying “I didn’t see them?” That kind of thing.

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In this example, that is deception, so yes, same as lying. Just tell the person or don't meet up with the ex!

AnneLovesGilbert · 09/04/2025 10:44

Like if someone didn’t tell their partner they’d met up with an ex - they didn’t lie if they weren’t asked but it’s still withholding. Is that as bad as saying “I didn’t see them?”

That’s like blaming the person who’s left in the dark for not knowing the question to ask.

Who’s meeting up with their ex, you?

WhoMeMissYesYouMiss · 09/04/2025 10:45

AnneLovesGilbert · 09/04/2025 10:44

Like if someone didn’t tell their partner they’d met up with an ex - they didn’t lie if they weren’t asked but it’s still withholding. Is that as bad as saying “I didn’t see them?”

That’s like blaming the person who’s left in the dark for not knowing the question to ask.

Who’s meeting up with their ex, you?

This

Mareleine · 09/04/2025 10:45

I think lying by omission is more deceptive and underhanded actually, because it depends on the other person not being an interrogator-type to ever find anything out. My DF was an alcoholic and he was the king of lying by omission.
It's a form of mind games and it's very cruel.

Original poster

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 10:46

WoodyOwl · 09/04/2025 10:43

In this example, that is deception, so yes, same as lying. Just tell the person or don't meet up with the ex!

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It’s not a real life situation, it’s an example.

OP posts:

Original poster

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 10:47

AnneLovesGilbert · 09/04/2025 10:44

Like if someone didn’t tell their partner they’d met up with an ex - they didn’t lie if they weren’t asked but it’s still withholding. Is that as bad as saying “I didn’t see them?”

That’s like blaming the person who’s left in the dark for not knowing the question to ask.

Who’s meeting up with their ex, you?

This was just an example for the sake of this thread.

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MolkosTeenageAngst · 09/04/2025 10:47

It depends on the intent, if you tell a lie then there is always an intent to deceive. When people withhold the truth there is sometimes an intent to deceive, but sometimes the person has just genuinely not thought to mention it.

Cheating on your partner and not telling them about it when they ask what happened at the weekend is as bad as lying and saying you haven’t cheated when they directly ask ‘did you cheat at the weekend.’ You’re intending to deceive your current partner and hide the truth from them in both situations. However not telling a current partner that you once cheated on a partner years ago because they’ve never asked and you don’t think it’s relevant so haven’t brought it up yourself is not the same as being asked about it and lying or falsely saying you’ve never cheated on anybody when it comes up in conversation. It’s okay not to disclose everything you’ve ever done and to omit information you’re not proud of, but that’s different to deliberately withholding information that is relevant to somebody just because they haven’t asked.

SpringIsSpringing25 · 09/04/2025 10:47

Lying by omission is just as bad if you know the other person would want that information, but didn't know they needed to ask the question!!

myplace · 09/04/2025 10:48

Getting hung up on the definition of lie is unhelpful.

The intent is what matters. Did you intend to deceive? Did you intend to profit? Did you intend to avoid offending/upsetting someone?

Some of us lie to stay out of trouble as a survival mechanism. Lying was is easy as breathing for me. I have had to work as an adult on being truthful. I now don’t lie. I am still a bit avoidant though.

ShruggedHugely · 09/04/2025 10:53

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 10:41

I suppose I mean morally more than legally though I’m aware it can overlap. I’m just thinking about situations where someone leaves out a key detail but doesn’t technically lie, versus making something up entirely.

Like if someone didn’t tell their partner they’d met up with an ex - they didn’t lie if they weren’t asked but it’s still withholding. Is that as bad as saying “I didn’t see them?” That kind of thing.

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More information needed, though. Is seeing the ex controversial? Are there unresolved feelings? is it a recent ex? I see a couple of my exes periodically, but there are no feelings other than platonic friendship, and on my side, at least, it feels mildly hilarious that I used to have sex with them. I wouldn't feel the need to tell DH as any kind of special disclosure, any more than I would tell him which other friend I had had a drink with.

Leapintothelightning · 09/04/2025 10:56

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 10:41

I suppose I mean morally more than legally though I’m aware it can overlap. I’m just thinking about situations where someone leaves out a key detail but doesn’t technically lie, versus making something up entirely.

Like if someone didn’t tell their partner they’d met up with an ex - they didn’t lie if they weren’t asked but it’s still withholding. Is that as bad as saying “I didn’t see them?” That kind of thing.

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Where do you land on cheating as an example then?
it’s fine because the other partner didn’t ask if they were cheating?

MargoLivebetter · 09/04/2025 10:56

If the intent is to deceive, then I don't think it matters if it is omission or made up completely. In a lie, the intention is to mislead someone by distorting the facts, either by not including them or by bending them or falsifying them. They are therefore all the same thing for me, because the intention behind the actions is the same. I'm referring to significant lies here, not little white ones that are more often acts of kindness, rather than an attempt to deceive.

JHound · 09/04/2025 11:02

Nah I think it’s the same depending on context.

When I was dating, I saw men who lied about being single and those who just chose not to disclose they had a wife and kids as one and the same.

Now of course there are contexts where choosing not to disclose something is harmless - especially when it is not relevant to the topic at hand.

TammyJones · 09/04/2025 11:02

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 10:41

I suppose I mean morally more than legally though I’m aware it can overlap. I’m just thinking about situations where someone leaves out a key detail but doesn’t technically lie, versus making something up entirely.

Like if someone didn’t tell their partner they’d met up with an ex - they didn’t lie if they weren’t asked but it’s still withholding. Is that as bad as saying “I didn’t see them?” That kind of thing.

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I see… so you met up with an ex and didn’t tell your partner
yes that’s a deception / lie
otherwises know as lieing by omission.

Original poster

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 11:04

TammyJones · 09/04/2025 11:02

I see… so you met up with an ex and didn’t tell your partner
yes that’s a deception / lie
otherwises know as lieing by omission.

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No. I have said three times that this is not a real life situation. It’s an example for the sake of the thread, in response to a PP’s question. Jesus Christ.

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JHound · 09/04/2025 11:05

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 10:41

I suppose I mean morally more than legally though I’m aware it can overlap. I’m just thinking about situations where someone leaves out a key detail but doesn’t technically lie, versus making something up entirely.

Like if someone didn’t tell their partner they’d met up with an ex - they didn’t lie if they weren’t asked but it’s still withholding. Is that as bad as saying “I didn’t see them?” That kind of thing.

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This is what I mean by context. If I meet up with an ex and choose not to tell my current partner because I know they would have an issue, in my opinion that’s the same as lying outright.

However if I met up with an ex and did not tell my partner because it never occurred to me it would be an issue, I don’t see that as the same thing.

PickledElectricity · 09/04/2025 11:07

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 11:04

No. I have said three times that this is not a real life situation. It’s an example for the sake of the thread, in response to a PP’s question. Jesus Christ.

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Well, what prompted you to start this thread? There must have been a specific situation.

I do think it varies. Omitting that you met up with an ex or acquired a large chunk of money is wrong, omitting that the biscuit cupboard is bare because you went on a lunchtime binge is probably ok.

Original poster

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 11:14

PickledElectricity · 09/04/2025 11:07

Well, what prompted you to start this thread? There must have been a specific situation.

I do think it varies. Omitting that you met up with an ex or acquired a large chunk of money is wrong, omitting that the biscuit cupboard is bare because you went on a lunchtime binge is probably ok.

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I promise it’s not about anything in my own life - I was just curious how people see the line between omission and outright lying.

Someone earlier asked for an example, so I gave one to help frame it but it’s not something I’m dealing with personally. I do find it interesting though how people draw those lines differently depending on the context - like the difference between “I didn’t tell you I ate the biscuits” vs “I told you I didn’t.”

OP posts:

PsychoHotSauce · 09/04/2025 11:14

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 10:41

I suppose I mean morally more than legally though I’m aware it can overlap. I’m just thinking about situations where someone leaves out a key detail but doesn’t technically lie, versus making something up entirely.

Like if someone didn’t tell their partner they’d met up with an ex - they didn’t lie if they weren’t asked but it’s still withholding. Is that as bad as saying “I didn’t see them?” That kind of thing.

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The crucial bit is why they left the info out. Not telling your partner that you met up with an ex is obvious surely!