Page 2 | To think that withholding the truth and outright lying are two different things?

BlondiePortz · 09/04/2025 11:14

Well i didnt tell my husband i got a coffee yesterday morning, or the exact time I went to the toilet when I woke up so is this lying? Would he actually care about these examples? But if i was a serial killer I would presume he would want to know?

Yes silly examples but there is a difference with intent

user9637 · 09/04/2025 11:16

Obviously they’re different otherwise we wouldn’t have the different words and meanings for them

Anonym00se · 09/04/2025 11:17

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 10:41

I suppose I mean morally more than legally though I’m aware it can overlap. I’m just thinking about situations where someone leaves out a key detail but doesn’t technically lie, versus making something up entirely.

Like if someone didn’t tell their partner they’d met up with an ex - they didn’t lie if they weren’t asked but it’s still withholding. Is that as bad as saying “I didn’t see them?” That kind of thing.

Show quote history

I think it’s as bad. My ex told me meeting a colleague after work. He didn’t tell me that it was to shag them. He then had the audacity to claim he’d never lied to me.

Badbadbunny · 09/04/2025 11:18

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 10:32

Some people say “a lie by omission is still a lie” but is it really the same as actively making something up? Where do you draw the line?

Lying by omission is exactly the same as outright lies. In both there's a clear intention to mislead. I regard them exactly the same. No difference at all in my book.

BrieAndChilli · 09/04/2025 11:18

completely depends on the context

not telling someone that you heard someone say something behind their back - not a lie
not telling your husband that you took out a £50k loan - is a lie by omission.

Badbadbunny · 09/04/2025 11:19

MargoLivebetter · 09/04/2025 10:56

If the intent is to deceive, then I don't think it matters if it is omission or made up completely. In a lie, the intention is to mislead someone by distorting the facts, either by not including them or by bending them or falsifying them. They are therefore all the same thing for me, because the intention behind the actions is the same. I'm referring to significant lies here, not little white ones that are more often acts of kindness, rather than an attempt to deceive.

Nail on the head.

Original poster

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 11:19

BlondiePortz · 09/04/2025 11:14

Well i didnt tell my husband i got a coffee yesterday morning, or the exact time I went to the toilet when I woke up so is this lying? Would he actually care about these examples? But if i was a serial killer I would presume he would want to know?

Yes silly examples but there is a difference with intent

Yes, exactly - that’s kind of what I’m getting at. Intent and context matter. Not every omission is deceitful but some definitely are. I just find it interesting how people decide what should be shared and what’s acceptable to keep to themselves.

OP posts:

MattCauthon · 09/04/2025 11:21

Purposeful omission for the sake of deceit - or to purposefully hide something someone else has a right to know- is lying. Omission for other reasons might be fine.

eg, I have a friend who is undergoing significant health issues and treatment. We have a mutual friend/aquaintance who we see and speak to very seldom as she doesn't live near by. I met up with that friend a couple of weeks ago but my ill friend has made it clear she doesn't want people to know about her illness and so I did not mention it to our mutual friend. I consider that an omission but not a lie.

However, if I am hiding the fact that I have overspent on the credit card from DH at a time when we are struggling for money, then that omission would be, in my opinion, a lie, as it's an attempt to purposefully be deceitful and to hide something.

noidea69 · 09/04/2025 11:25

I think you are going to have to give the example that's prompted this.

The example of you meeting up with ex is not a lie but deception.

Unitarily · 09/04/2025 11:29

Depends on the topic. In your ex example that’s bad either way.

Theunamedcat · 09/04/2025 11:30

I think not telling people every nuance of your day to day life doesn't make you a liar a lie has to be a deliberate action for example

Person A has dementia they also have a (for the sake of argument) heart problem 20 years ago they would have been offered invasive surgery to repair it but because they are old and frail it's pointless 80% chance of not making it through person B is their child they ask the dr not to tell person A about this because it's pointless they will be distressed then forget potentially remember and get distressed again telling them serves no purpose Dr agrees not to tell them unless they directly ask because they can't lie to the patient but the child can lie and they do

Is it a bad lie? Is there such a thing as a good lie? Can you honestly say all lies are created equally? People lie all the time

They didn't suffer
It was instantaneous
They were unconscious they didn't feel a thing

Would the truth hurt? Do you WANT to cause people emotional pain?

SmallFiresBurning · 09/04/2025 11:46

One is active deception - lying
One is passive deception - saying nothing. I think this only qualifies as deception if it’s intended to deliberately hide something, which is not always as clear cut as lying. E.G. a woman not telling her husband she’s run up £50,000 credit card debt.

There are many instances where omitting to tell someone something is not a deliberate intention to mislead, and has very few or no consequences. We’re not obligated to tell every person in our lives everything about ourselves at all times. Where there are negative consequences for another person, I would say lying and omitting are equally as bad.

MesmerisingMuon · 09/04/2025 11:55

This is VERY Enid Blyton...

If you've never read any of her books, then the children in the stories NEVER lie. But... they do make a thing about of not directly answering questions so that the answer that they give is not a lie.

e.g. I was asked by a pupil if I'd ever smoked weed. I replied that my favourite drug is coffee, and that I am very much a coffee addict. I didn't lie.

Lying and withholding the truth are NOT the same thing. There is such a thing as "lying by omission" but that's when you deliberately mislead someone into thinking something else.

I think the bigger question is WHY you wouldn't want to tell someone something.

SorcererGaheris · 09/04/2025 12:24

noidea69 · 09/04/2025 11:25

I think you are going to have to give the example that's prompted this.

The example of you meeting up with ex is not a lie but deception.

The OP has stated that there isn’t an example that has prompted the question - they are simply curious about people’s thoughts on the matter.

Gundogday · 09/04/2025 13:13

I agree. Withholding information is not the same as lying, it’s just being ‘economical with the truth’.

MounjaroOnMyMind · 09/04/2025 13:16

SpringIsSpringing25 · 09/04/2025 10:47

Lying by omission is just as bad if you know the other person would want that information, but didn't know they needed to ask the question!!

Wanting the information doesn't equal having a right to the information, though.

In the example the OP gave where a man omits telling his partner that he'd met up with an ex, then he's lying by omission. If my neighbour wanted to know how much I earned and I gave a false figure, then they had no right to the information anyway, so I wouldn't count that as a lie.

TammyJones · 09/04/2025 13:37

YourRedFinch · 09/04/2025 11:04

No. I have said three times that this is not a real life situation. It’s an example for the sake of the thread, in response to a PP’s question. Jesus Christ.

Show quote history

No need to be so rude…..

LaPalmaLlama · 09/04/2025 13:42

I mean, I don't even know about the ex situation. If I was walking down the street, bumped into an ex I hadn't seen for years, grabbed a quick coffee with them to catch up and didn't mention it to DH, then I'm not sure that's so terrible is it? I almost feel that by saying "btw I think you should know I had a coffee with Brian today" to DH I'd be creating something out of nothing. There's a lot to be said for letting sleeping dogs lie. Obviously if I'd shagged Brian in Costa and not mentioned it then that would be bad but then I think the shagging overtakes the lying about it in the "bad" stakes (and also DH would want to know why I'm now banned from Costa).

Badbadbunny · 09/04/2025 13:48

LaPalmaLlama · 09/04/2025 13:42

I mean, I don't even know about the ex situation. If I was walking down the street, bumped into an ex I hadn't seen for years, grabbed a quick coffee with them to catch up and didn't mention it to DH, then I'm not sure that's so terrible is it? I almost feel that by saying "btw I think you should know I had a coffee with Brian today" to DH I'd be creating something out of nothing. There's a lot to be said for letting sleeping dogs lie. Obviously if I'd shagged Brian in Costa and not mentioned it then that would be bad but then I think the shagging overtakes the lying about it in the "bad" stakes (and also DH would want to know why I'm now banned from Costa).

Would you mention meeting a long lost female friend to your OH as a matter of course? If not, then fair enough, but if you would normally mention something like that, but decide not to mention it because it's an ex rather than, say, a school friend or ex work colleague, then, yes, I think you're into lying territory as there is deception coming into play.

noidea69 · 09/04/2025 13:51

SorcererGaheris · 09/04/2025 12:24

The OP has stated that there isn’t an example that has prompted the question - they are simply curious about people’s thoughts on the matter.

Show quote history

yeah i call bullshit though, something has happened which OP reluctant to disclose as fears she'll look like the bad guy.

LaPalmaLlama · 09/04/2025 13:53

Badbadbunny · 09/04/2025 13:48

Would you mention meeting a long lost female friend to your OH as a matter of course? If not, then fair enough, but if you would normally mention something like that, but decide not to mention it because it's an ex rather than, say, a school friend or ex work colleague, then, yes, I think you're into lying territory as there is deception coming into play.

Show quote history

Honestly only if he knew them. Otherwise quite possibly not - like if I saw someone from Uni he had never met and had a coffee then I would mention it if he said "what did you get up to today?" but I wouldn't actively mention it. If he did know them then I probably would say "guess who I bumped into today?"

TheFatCatsWhiskers1 · 09/04/2025 14:28

I think it depends on whether it could reasonably considered their business or not.

I wouldn't tell someone about things that happened in my childhood, for example. I'd be vague and breezy.

SpringIsSpringing25 · 09/04/2025 14:45

MounjaroOnMyMind · 09/04/2025 13:16

Wanting the information doesn't equal having a right to the information, though.

In the example the OP gave where a man omits telling his partner that he'd met up with an ex, then he's lying by omission. If my neighbour wanted to know how much I earned and I gave a false figure, then they had no right to the information anyway, so I wouldn't count that as a lie.

Show quote history

Okay, let's discuss every possible lie or a omission 🙄🙇🏻‍♀️

I was referring to the type of lie/omission that has been used as an example on this thread by the OP

Dotjones · 09/04/2025 14:48

It depends on the intent of the person making (or not making) a statement and on whether the receiver is likely to misunderstand the truth because of what is said (or isn't said).

"When I got back from the toilet the front of the car was all smashed in" may be true, but if it was smashed in because you'd crashed it before you walked off to the toilet and then come back it's clearly misleading.

Saying "When I got back from the toilet the front of the car was all smashed in" but omitting the fact while you were in the toilet the person in the cubicle next to you was humming the theme from Grange Hill wouldn't be lying because that part isn't relevant.

Using a politician as an example, promising to do something if you are elected but then not doing it isn't a lie in itself if you genuinely intended to do it but weren't able. But claiming you've done something you haven't is clearly a lie. When Labour say they've deported a certain number of people this year when in actual fact a lot of them left of their own accord, this is clearly a lie.

SaladSandwichesForTea · 09/04/2025 14:55

I think those are two specific things, hut being a person of integrity is a different thing entirely and that's what I hold myself to.

Example
If someone has a shit wedding dress on their wedding day, of course I wouldn't give that opinion, whether asked for it or not. I'd probably go further and tell the bride she looked beautiful.