To think that the private school VAT case is a waste of time and money?

[Yaaaassssssqueeeeeennnnnslay]

The government’s removal of VAT breaks on school fees is being challenged in courts - friend has been pinning her hopes on this, her DC ( no SEN, perfectly bright) are in an expensive private school. I told her it wasn’t likely to make a difference, and her children will be long out of school by the time any absolute decisions are made.

However, even if the judgement goes the school’s way it’ll court to the Court of Appeal, then the European Court - which could take years - and even then IF that court rules in favour of private schools our government is under no obligation to change anything.

IF a court is even willing to intervene in a social/economic policy that was in a political manifesto - a BIG policy - and voted for.

YANBU - it’s a waste of time/money if the goal is to get the government to reverse the VAT/ business rates policy in private achools

YABU - it could overturn their policy

You’re definitely right about how long it will take and how the government won’t be obliged to change anything even if they lose.

Not sure about your other point - the courts don’t (or shouldn’t) take political policy and manifestos into account, they only apply the law.

I personally feel it's really important to democracy to be able to hold the government to account through the law courts. It's part of the idea of the separation of powers with Commons, Lords and the judiciary.

This process might be expensive and I rather suspect they will lose, but it's necessary.

Imagine if a manifesto said something contravening another part of the human Rights Act that was more far more controversial . I'm sure lots of people would be grateful for the opportunity to ask the judiciary to rule on it. Remember most elections are won with less than 50% of the voters voting for the ruling party due to our constituency system.

Courts are generally cautious on making decisions that involve economic decision- making from central government.

‘personally feel it's really important to democracy to be able to hold the government to account through the law courts. ’

We’re not locking people up Guantanamo Bay style- this is a removal of tax advantages that arguably should have existed in the first place though.

I’m now wondering if the schools are going to actively going to have to make themselves cheaper to be able to continue to attract enough pupils.

For years they’ve had above inflation increases and are twice the cost of ~20 years ago.

Far too much money spent on buildings and facilities, when really what is important is the teaching.

I agree OP. I'm not sure some of the prolific posters on here realise that even if the government lose, it will be an advisory ruling and they don't actually have to change anything. Utterly pointless.

in your opinion. The lawyers involved maintain it isnt 'a tax advantage' as you mistakenly understand it. I also think its important to be able to get them to jutsify contentious policies in court, especially when they've made bold statements about how the money they recoup is going to be spent in education (reminds me of Boris's Brexit NHS bus).

This is a really good point and we can see what is happening in America as a good example.

I would be surprised if this particular legal action succeeds though, and also the time scales are unlikely to help OP’s friend.

Agreed with this. Friends school have spent literal millions on ‘state of the art’ sports facilities etc. mainly to attract overseas students but honestly, do they need cricket pitches that professional teams would be envious of?

People should always be able to challenge their government.

I've never understood the argument that VAT is an unlawful tax on education, when free education is available for everyone.

I do agree that schools themselves could do plenty to mitigate this if they wanted to. The private school I went to was at the time pretty basic and had quite low fees; subsequently they have gone down the route of spending millions on state of the art stuff - swimming pool, library with extensive IT, music school, drama theatre, art studio, chapel, you name it. So they now charge hefty fees and seem to be doing OK in terms of attracting pupils. If they're worried about losing pupils, all they really need to do is put the next expensive development project on hold.

It’s not going to impact those currently paying fees, but could impact those in future.
Charging VAT on education is, to me, as abominable as charging VAT on tampons.
Why not direct taxes towards more destructive things like gambling etc?

Imo, it’s not a waste of time to explore its morality/human rights implications.

I agree OP - the chance of success of this legal challenge seems extremely low. I'm in favour of government being subject to the law, and being able to be challenged when they do something illegal, but I think it's a shame that this case was brought, as all it will achieve is wasting public money.

Are you talking of the case currently being heard around SEN kids having to pay VAT and whether this affects their right to an education? This is not going to have an affect on their fees paid by those without SEN kids.

I am unaware of any arguments proceeding through the courts with respect to the VAT on fees more generally.

And as we have left the EU the last court who will hear any case is the Supreme Court. Charging VAT on private school fees is banned by the EU as abhorrent.

It’s not a tax advantage. Nearly nowhere in the world is education taxed. You sound bitter that her friend has kids at private school (why does it matter if they have SEN or not?).
what will happen is the same as it already has at universities. Locals are being priced out and the goal will be to attract more overseas students and kids.

It will be changed anyway as labour will probably lose power next election. Tories/Reform are in favour of axing vat on private school fees. I am not a supporter of either but lots of people will vote for them.

Usually incoming governments are reluctant to change the policies of the outgoing government if those policies are revenue generating as they’d have to find an alternative way to raise the cash. This VAT policy raises a minimal amount if any - it might even make a loss - and seems entirely grievance driven so I can see it being overturned.

I can see WHY they've implemented the fees, and am not totally against it, but the way they have done it is wrong.

They have literally moved the goalposts and disrupted the education of children.

To make such a change, they should have given at least 3 years notice, so parents have time to look for a suitable alternative, or find sufficient money so their child can finish their education in the same setting.

It's a bit like Labour getting into Power in 1997. I was just too young to vote, but I know so many parents voting because Labour's anti tuition fee policy to abolish the Tory's tuition fees was very popular. Then not only did they renege on their policy, they then trebled the fees! I remember Tony Blair turning up at my university, and we all turned our backs on him in protest!!

Anyway... Private schools need to re-think their business plan to survive. Perhaps lower tuition fees, more bums on seats, focusing on good quality education and no disruptions in lessons.

I've worked in a state school for nearly 12 years and if we didn't have to deal with the disruptive rude self entitled children (mostly caused by poor parenting), then state schools would be just as good as private.

In fact, get rid of private schools altogether, encourage wealthier parents to invest in their local schools, and bring back borstal style boarding schools for those who need some discipline and respect instilled in them.

A lot of the money to pay for the legal fees for the Challenge were Crowdfunded, and looking at the comments from many people who contributed , it’s clear that they think this case will 1) be won 2) will immediately save them money -
seems disingenuous to say the least, that the people asking for the money weren’t upfront about both their chances of being successful and the amount of time it would take for any actual resolution.

their money to waste then, why do you care if you didn't contribute?

As someone with children in each camp (state secondary and mainstream private secondary) the biggest difference isn’t the facilities, or the teachers, or the ‘connections’ or the extra curricular, it’s the ability to chuck disruptive little scripted out of the school if they are at private that it the difference. All the other factors are much of a muchness. The discipline factor is VAST.

‘bring back borstal style boarding schools for those who need some discipline and respect instilled in them.’

oooh, and what about National Service too? And hanging?

What's so funny about borstel style boarding schools for kids who cannot behave?

Why should other children have their learning constantly disrupted? It's not fair. You shouldn't have to pay just to get an education without disruptions.

OP, this is what should happen in a democracy where there is 'rule of law'.

Unless you want a Trump-style regime in which case you and your interests will be next whilst you are still gloating at the latest victim of an arbitrary ideological-led agenda.

It’s not a tax break. I hope it does succeed, if not where does it stop. Surely the next thing should be private health etc.