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To be sick of all the newspaper articles saying lies about DLA and PIP

1000 replies

elliejjtiny · 08/04/2025 22:37

To get any DLA or PIP you have to be significantly disabled. To get the higher rate of either part you have to be severely disabled.

A motability car is not free, it's rented. To get one you need to either be unable to walk 50 metres or have a severe learning disability, which is very difficult to get.

It's always happened but since the stuff in the news about changes to PIP it's got worse.

Articles in the newspapers claiming you can get a free car for bed wetting, which just doesn't happen. There will be children like my ds who get DLA because they have a number of problems including bedwetting but nobody gets high rate mobility for bed wetting on its own.

There are other articles about people claiming PIP and DLA for various minor sounding conditions and I am so fed up with it. I know from experience that the newspapers will have talked to people claiming PIP/DLA and twist everything they say to make them sound like a scrounger.

All these articles are giving off the message that anyone with any minor disability can claim loads of benefits.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
MistressoftheDarkSide · 11/04/2025 09:43

Wildflowers99 · 11/04/2025 09:42

Hi Jeremy..

Hi Maggie 😘

Wildflowers99 · 11/04/2025 09:44

MistressoftheDarkSide · 11/04/2025 09:43

Hi Maggie 😘

😂😂

IWonderWhereMySharkPantsWent · 11/04/2025 09:45

@Wildflowers99 It’s not the case though that people are sitting on it for years for mild conditions. If the conditions are not significantly affecting someone’s life they don’t get pip, it’s as simple as that.

It’s not a matter of faking forms because you need so much evidence. Some people are getting pip for ND and/or mental health issues, but no one is getting it unless they are seriously affected by it. I know everyone has a story, and newspapers are currently full of them, but it’s been shown time and time again to be untrue.

Just shows the propaganda works.

GivenUpOnSleep · 11/04/2025 09:46

Oh, and as for means testing child benefit saving money, roughly 10% of UK working adults earn over £60k. Mostly people earn more towards the end of their careers when their children are grown up so the percentage of parents with children who earn this figure will be lower but let’s go with 10%. Total child benefit cost to the Treasury is currently around £12.5bn per year. 10% of this is £1.25bn (although there is tapering, so lets say £1.5bn potential saving at best, given that very high earners would never have bothered to claim it, anyway). Given that it costs £1.5bn per year as an ongoing cost to process the means-testing, it saves precisely zero. It has just transferred money from children to additional HMRC staff who had to be employed.

And this was a relatively simple means test to implement, into an existing system that already had an IT system designed to collect all of the relevant data. Of course, this doesn’t even factor in the setup costs, or costs of changing thresholds etc outlined in my previous post. And, crucially, doesn’t include the economic cost to the wider economy, lowered productivity, lower workforce participation, and lower tax revenue that results from the disincentive (which HMRC shows has a very significant effect with a large number of people keeping earnings just below the threshold due to the punitive marginal tax rates above it). It is therefore very clear that this means testing makes everyone poorer, not just the families who have had child benefit removed, but the rest of the population also because the resulting falling tax revenue means either higher tax rates or less funding for other public services.

Means testing has been shown repeatedly to be counterproductive by historic data time and time again, with similar results every time such a system is implemented. Usually it is motivated by political optics, like so many poor decisions in UK economic management, by short-termist politicians pandering to the prejudices of an economically illiterate electorate.

IWonderWhereMySharkPantsWent · 11/04/2025 09:46

MistressoftheDarkSide · 11/04/2025 09:41

In effect the government (mostly regardless of party leaning) makes rubbish financial decisions probably after too much in the way of powdered stimulants if some reports are believed, panics when it goes sideways, looks round for an easy target, then pits the rest of the population against them through media manipulation.

It's a softly softly version of Stasi tactics. Tried, tested but dressed up as "for the greater good". Anything to avoid addressing their own self serving activities, and then everyone's surprised when people feel victimised.

Take the anger about the right to buy scheme. People did as they were told, but now are being blamed for doing so because it contributed to the skewed property market we currently have, and it's hardly their fault that the government just stopped building council housing with the proceeds. Partly law of unintended consequences perhaps, but also an incredible lack of foresight, planning and accountability from government.

This is a similar issue, and it's being driven by unchecked wealth transfer and the protection of corporate and shareholder interest at the expense of all else.

Yes, this! 👏👏

LadyKenya · 11/04/2025 09:48

Penguinmouse · 11/04/2025 09:41

And the fact you have to replace the car every three years. There’s absolutely no need. Inevitably, you also get people taking the piss by adding a bunch of additional drivers who aren’t the person receiving PIP when it is meant to be for the person receiving it or on their behalf.

What are you on about? People are not taking the piss, as you so eloquently put it, if it is perfectly acceptable, and legal to have up to two other named drivers on the insurance. Your fury/ jealousy is misplaced. It is not the disabled person's fault, that they are required to change their car/ wav, every three years. That is down to Motability. You have no understanding of the scheme, which is obvious, yet you wish to viciously attack it!

TigerRag · 11/04/2025 09:50

Cherryicecreamx · 11/04/2025 09:42

Unfortunately I know a couple people who's had a new car financed and they can walk. A fair bit. I'm not entirely sure how they did it. I honestly think people play on a medical condition so it comes across worse than what it is.

As you've obviously looked at the criteria for pip you'd know it's possible to walk and get a car. I'm legitimately entitled to swap my pip for a car but it's not worth it as my disability means I don't drive

Wildflowers99 · 11/04/2025 09:52

The way in which MT and I differ is I am a massive believer in ‘society’. I think individualism is killing our way of life and making everyone miserable. But society means not just benefitting from other people but also giving back.
You only have to glance on here to see the rife individualism that everyone promotes, yet also whinge about having ‘no village’, no friends and nobody to do things for them.
Apparently looking after your own kids and relatives is optional and something you should be thanked for, because you’re ’saving the state a fortune’ by doing it. People are not obligated to do anything for anyone else unless the law compels them to - forget giving your skint (but hard working) adult kids a bit of help, they’re clearly ‘entitled’ for expecting it. However should YOU have any problems the government should send you a very expensive cavalry, and nothing can EVER be attributed to somebody’s parenting. It’s justifiable to ask for a 30k a year SEMH school place, rather than ask the parent to step up, take away the bloody screens, feed their kids properly and bring them up without a revolving door of men and drama coming in and out of their house.
I feel the same about benefits. I want a very generous package for disabled people, but I want the definition of disability to revert to what it was 20 years ago - SEMH and ‘anxiety’ can, in very many cases, be improved through personal discipline and routine. This is something I’ve seen time and time again at work - benefits enabling people to drop out of society and form an expectation society owes them a lifestyle, while making themselves increasingly unemployable through embedding their agoraphobia and degrading their timekeeping skills and work ethic. After 15 years of lying in bed most of the day and vaping/gaming, they’re ’too anxious’ and ‘think they have ADHD’.
It isn’t lost on me that there is a cluster of conditions and these people seem to work their way through them like a ticklish - ADHD, ASD, anxiety, PTSD, fibromyalgia, CFS. Yes of course people can struggle with these but in the enormous and skyrocketing numbers we have now? Really? Just as the benefit cap comes in for all but those with a condition? And once again they can do anything apart from work!

Okshacky · 11/04/2025 09:55

Penguinmouse · 11/04/2025 09:41

And the fact you have to replace the car every three years. There’s absolutely no need. Inevitably, you also get people taking the piss by adding a bunch of additional drivers who aren’t the person receiving PIP when it is meant to be for the person receiving it or on their behalf.

The car is replaced every three years (though you can try for an extension for up to 5) is a financial decision based on the resale value of the hire car. Most disabled people would love to keep the car longer because the down payments can be very difficult to save up for.

You can have a max of three drivers at any time (not a bunch). Not all disabled people can do all the driving especially on longer journeys and some will need carers to drive. Again these are people who qualify for High Rate Mobility not just anyone who gets PIP.

I honestly think many of you would be ashamed if you really understood what you were talking about.

Sheeparelooseagain · 11/04/2025 09:56

"Inevitably, you also get people taking the piss by adding a bunch of additional drivers who aren’t the person receiving PIP when it is meant to be for the person receiving it or on their behalf."

I suppose it will really wind you up to know that you don't need to add any drivers with my son's Motability car so anyone can drive it.

x2boys · 11/04/2025 10:10

Penguinmouse · 11/04/2025 09:41

And the fact you have to replace the car every three years. There’s absolutely no need. Inevitably, you also get people taking the piss by adding a bunch of additional drivers who aren’t the person receiving PIP when it is meant to be for the person receiving it or on their behalf.

So we have a mobility car for my very nearly 15 year old which we use as the family car ,he has the cognitive ability of a toddler ,so no he wont be driving his car ever his Dad is the named driver and thats perfectly legal

Penguinmouse · 11/04/2025 10:15

5300 people removed from insurance by Motability last year because of misuse so it’s not nobody @LadyKenya

I think it’s fair enough that if taxpayer money is going to fund cars, that value for money and strict criteria are applied.

Sirzy · 11/04/2025 10:18

I am a named driver on my dad’s motability car. He can’t drive anymore and got a motability vehicle that was suitable for his needs. My car isn’t suitable for his needs so if my Mum (his normal carer) isn’t available to take him to an appointment (or even out for coffee!) for whatever reason, then I will use his car.

I can’t just drive it coz I feel like as it has to be used for his needs.

IWonderWhereMySharkPantsWent · 11/04/2025 10:19

Wildflowers99 · 11/04/2025 09:52

The way in which MT and I differ is I am a massive believer in ‘society’. I think individualism is killing our way of life and making everyone miserable. But society means not just benefitting from other people but also giving back.
You only have to glance on here to see the rife individualism that everyone promotes, yet also whinge about having ‘no village’, no friends and nobody to do things for them.
Apparently looking after your own kids and relatives is optional and something you should be thanked for, because you’re ’saving the state a fortune’ by doing it. People are not obligated to do anything for anyone else unless the law compels them to - forget giving your skint (but hard working) adult kids a bit of help, they’re clearly ‘entitled’ for expecting it. However should YOU have any problems the government should send you a very expensive cavalry, and nothing can EVER be attributed to somebody’s parenting. It’s justifiable to ask for a 30k a year SEMH school place, rather than ask the parent to step up, take away the bloody screens, feed their kids properly and bring them up without a revolving door of men and drama coming in and out of their house.
I feel the same about benefits. I want a very generous package for disabled people, but I want the definition of disability to revert to what it was 20 years ago - SEMH and ‘anxiety’ can, in very many cases, be improved through personal discipline and routine. This is something I’ve seen time and time again at work - benefits enabling people to drop out of society and form an expectation society owes them a lifestyle, while making themselves increasingly unemployable through embedding their agoraphobia and degrading their timekeeping skills and work ethic. After 15 years of lying in bed most of the day and vaping/gaming, they’re ’too anxious’ and ‘think they have ADHD’.
It isn’t lost on me that there is a cluster of conditions and these people seem to work their way through them like a ticklish - ADHD, ASD, anxiety, PTSD, fibromyalgia, CFS. Yes of course people can struggle with these but in the enormous and skyrocketing numbers we have now? Really? Just as the benefit cap comes in for all but those with a condition? And once again they can do anything apart from work!

This is an indictment on society though, and how the village has largely been taken away.

People are struggling more than ever. Humans are divided more than ever. This hasn’t been by choice, this is a case of reaping what has been sown. This is 30 years of government de visions that has led us here.

Just your comment about SN children - just step up, take away their bloody screens - shows your ignorant bias! When parents take up the slack, which inevitably means they can’t work, they then have to rely on benefits, which is also wrong! You’re assuming that poor parenting is behind disability, over and over again in every thread of this type. You don’t seem to understand that increasing attitudes like this are the government’s dream - divide and conquer, we’ll show the scroungers. This is also a main driver for the increasing problems we’re seeing in society.
Yet again, the fortunately healthy ones buy into the propaganda against the vulnerable, and will not understand until it happens to them.

Wildflowers99 · 11/04/2025 10:24

IWonderWhereMySharkPantsWent · 11/04/2025 10:19

This is an indictment on society though, and how the village has largely been taken away.

People are struggling more than ever. Humans are divided more than ever. This hasn’t been by choice, this is a case of reaping what has been sown. This is 30 years of government de visions that has led us here.

Just your comment about SN children - just step up, take away their bloody screens - shows your ignorant bias! When parents take up the slack, which inevitably means they can’t work, they then have to rely on benefits, which is also wrong! You’re assuming that poor parenting is behind disability, over and over again in every thread of this type. You don’t seem to understand that increasing attitudes like this are the government’s dream - divide and conquer, we’ll show the scroungers. This is also a main driver for the increasing problems we’re seeing in society.
Yet again, the fortunately healthy ones buy into the propaganda against the vulnerable, and will not understand until it happens to them.

Oh, yawn. Tired of people using the government as any excuse to avoid personal responsibility

x2boys · 11/04/2025 10:25

Cherryicecreamx · 11/04/2025 09:42

Unfortunately I know a couple people who's had a new car financed and they can walk. A fair bit. I'm not entirely sure how they did it. I honestly think people play on a medical condition so it comes across worse than what it is.

Maybe actually read the ctiteria before you embarrsss yourself with posts like this
My son currently gets HRM under DLA he can walk for miles but has severe mental impsirment so qualifies on that basis
When he transitions to PIP there is no way he will be able to navigate a journey from A to B independently i anticipate he will continue to receive HRM.

PensionedCruiser · 11/04/2025 10:27

LadyKenya · 11/04/2025 09:48

What are you on about? People are not taking the piss, as you so eloquently put it, if it is perfectly acceptable, and legal to have up to two other named drivers on the insurance. Your fury/ jealousy is misplaced. It is not the disabled person's fault, that they are required to change their car/ wav, every three years. That is down to Motability. You have no understanding of the scheme, which is obvious, yet you wish to viciously attack it!

Hear! hear!

I didn't want to change my last car. I asked Motability if I could keep it. They offered to sell it to me at the market value. I would have been daft to accept that offer, but that is Motability's (profitable) business model - lease a brand new car for 3 years then sell it on. Don't demonised disabled people for the way a successful company operates (I don't mean you, Lady Kenya).

Drivers - I, my husband and son (who doesn't live with me) are nominated drivers. DH was in hospital for 2 weeks recently, I was not driving at the time (I am now) and my son drove to my home, took me in my car to visit DH so that I didn't have to cram myself into his tiny car. This situation may well happen again because some days my condition doesn't allow me to drive and DH isn't always up to driving to our nearest hospital - 35 miles away on very fast busy roads. DS is our safety driver. BTW, the car is always parked here overnight. DS has no need of it because he and his partner have a car each - and it is MY car, anyway.

snughugs · 11/04/2025 10:27

We can’t sustain these disability benefits forever. My son is entitled to them for ADHD. He’s off to a top university and so I joined a group for parents with Autism/ADHD off to university i was told to apply for ESA now and so by the age he’s 18 he can apply for Universal credit and get housing benefit etc whilst in Hall of Residence. They have lots of advice. I see they’re stopping the extra £400 a month LWRCA element for under 22 on top of their £500-£700 a month PIP on top of normal UC awards. This is a significant amount of money and whilst I think the kids with ADHD and autism making it to university is far better than them just being at home claiming, it’s a lot of money but I hear of kids with ADHD signed off doing nothing with their life, thats wrong.

I know someone who was depressed on PIP but went to every party going. My Dad was sectioned numerous times for depression it’s very different and I don’t think people understand mental health conditions and how bad they can be. It’s like ADHD parents
complaining about waiting lists but their child symptoms didn’t seem that bad until about 10. My son was excluded from numerous nurseries and was diagnosed as a cut and shut case before 5. A lot of children’s mental health are social problems and low intelligence and should not to be medicalised, yet as they’re undiagnosed on a waiting list they get an extra £1k a month PIP and carers as it’s done. There’s no incentive for some parents to help support their child’s behaviour and mental health improving if they’re getting this and on a long waiting list.

Okshacky · 11/04/2025 10:28

Wildflowers99 · 11/04/2025 10:24

Oh, yawn. Tired of people using the government as any excuse to avoid personal responsibility

Many of the people whose benefits are under scrutiny can’t take personal responsibility as they lack capacity. All the yawning in the world isn’t going to help the situation is it?

x2boys · 11/04/2025 10:31

snughugs · 11/04/2025 10:27

We can’t sustain these disability benefits forever. My son is entitled to them for ADHD. He’s off to a top university and so I joined a group for parents with Autism/ADHD off to university i was told to apply for ESA now and so by the age he’s 18 he can apply for Universal credit and get housing benefit etc whilst in Hall of Residence. They have lots of advice. I see they’re stopping the extra £400 a month LWRCA element for under 22 on top of their £500-£700 a month PIP on top of normal UC awards. This is a significant amount of money and whilst I think the kids with ADHD and autism making it to university is far better than them just being at home claiming, it’s a lot of money but I hear of kids with ADHD signed off doing nothing with their life, thats wrong.

I know someone who was depressed on PIP but went to every party going. My Dad was sectioned numerous times for depression it’s very different and I don’t think people understand mental health conditions and how bad they can be. It’s like ADHD parents
complaining about waiting lists but their child symptoms didn’t seem that bad until about 10. My son was excluded from numerous nurseries and was diagnosed as a cut and shut case before 5. A lot of children’s mental health are social problems and low intelligence and should not to be medicalised, yet as they’re undiagnosed on a waiting list they get an extra £1k a month PIP and carers as it’s done. There’s no incentive for some parents to help support their child’s behaviour and mental health improving if they’re getting this and on a long waiting list.

Your son wont automaticslly be entitled to PIP on the basis he ADHD it goes off how the condition impacts a person ,ADHD and Autism are both spectrum disorders as you should well know.

IWonderWhereMySharkPantsWent · 11/04/2025 10:35

Wildflowers99 · 11/04/2025 10:24

Oh, yawn. Tired of people using the government as any excuse to avoid personal responsibility

Yawn, tired of people who fall for Orwellian tactics and blame the very people who will suffer most from all of this!

You don’t sound like you have skin in this game, you’ve certainly shown zero empathy, or any indication of willingness to take on any sort of understanding. Society has changed. The village has all but gone. This is not a lack of personal responsibility, but systemic decline in publicly funded services over the last few decades.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 11/04/2025 10:35

Wildflowers99 · 11/04/2025 10:24

Oh, yawn. Tired of people using the government as any excuse to avoid personal responsibility

"Did you mean ti be so rude?"

Now who's trying to shut down discussion? The post you are waving off in such a condescending manner has good points within it, and discussing the root if the mess we appear to be in might just be helpful.

I have more to say about your attitude to caring, but I'm on my way to do an expensive round trip to get stuff from my Dad's flat while he's in hospital and then make sure we get a proper update on his progress, possible discharge in time, a care package because unless he loses capacity any time soon he's not going to let me go near the bedsores on his rear myself, and various other things relating to being a completely unpaid carer. Which would be easier if various departments actually communicated with us, each other, and actually read notes. But hey ho, another day in personal responsibility paradise for me 🙄

GivenUpOnSleep · 11/04/2025 10:46

Penguinmouse · 11/04/2025 10:15

5300 people removed from insurance by Motability last year because of misuse so it’s not nobody @LadyKenya

I think it’s fair enough that if taxpayer money is going to fund cars, that value for money and strict criteria are applied.

It sounds like there is robust enforcement then. So what is the issue? All Motability cars, as I understand it, are fitted with trackers, so misuse is easily identified (e.g. when somebody said that a car was being used as a taxi. Clearly it driving around all day would have been flagged, investigated, and the car removed: brilliant identification of benefit fraud). However, given the very large number of Motability cars (that some posters are apoplectic with rage about, and the very few instances of such behaviour that have been reported (which you can bet your house that there are Daily Mail journalists searching for every day, with great enthusiasm and commitment) it is quite clear, is it not, that 1) such cases are rare; and 2) when they do occur they are identified because systems are in place to ensure this happens, aside for the zealous journalists.

No system is perfect. That’s not possible. But quite clearly, there is no major problem here because - as has been explained multiple times - the existence of the Motability scheme makes no difference at all to the taxpayer.

If the idiots who used a Motability car as a taxi had any sense they could simply have taken the PIP payments the disabled partner was entitled to in cash, leased the same car themselves commercially for the same cost, and used it legally for both the benefit of the disabled person and for their business. In fact they could have done this more cheaply because the lease cost would have been tax deductible as a business expense. And not committed any fraud.

But some people are idiots. Sadly there’s no cure for that. However, it’s hardly a reason to deny the vast majority of people who use the Motability scheme access to such a scheme because they don’t have a partner who can work and subsidise them; or don’t have access to finance to be able to lease a car privately; or aren’t capable of arranging a lease themselves or have anyone to do it for them, or can’t afford a vehicle that they could actually use (but could if they weren’t disabled, either themselves or with family help) so use the Motability scheme to combine the money they could have used to buy/ lease an appropriate car as a non-disabled person with their PIP payments to lease one that they can use given their disabilities (the so-called “luxury” cars that so many posters seem to object to, not understanding that it’s about the specific features of certain cars that mitigate aspects of their particular disabilities, not the “brand” (sic) of the car which apparently causes such envy from certain posters); or need adaptions to the car which aren’t possible in most second-hand cars or allowable in privately leased cars; or aren’t able to obtain insurance at a manageable cost privately due to their disabilities but can do so through the pooled risk model of insurance through Motability… etc.

Instead, just because the green-eyed monster says “hey, this person who would otherwise be housebound can afford a car and I can’t, it’s not fair” or “hey, that person could afford a basic car (that they could not use) and instead they get extra money so they can lease a car they can use, but it’s got what I think is a “luxury” symbol on it and it’s not fair that I can’t have that one (even though I don’t need it).”

And want to stop people using their own money to “top up” their PIP payments to obtain a car that suits them through Motability simply because in their view someone else shouldn’t be able to have something they can’t afford, even if without it that person could not leave the house.

It’s the worst kind of grabbiness and entitlement, the worst of human nature, to be resentful of people more unfortunate than you and furious that the net contributors in our society are trying to ensure that the most disadvantaged can have some participation in society, while also funding services for the very same people who are complaining about this who don’t even pay for the services that they are using themselves, who contribute precisely nothing towards the cost of PIP. Yet they are almost always the ones expressing this rage about the cost of PIP to which they contribute nothing at all. In effect, you’re furious that those of us who do pay for this are giving severely disabled people slightly more than we give to you because they are disabled so they need extra help to try to live something vaguely resembling a normal life (it’s actually really insufficient to cover that, sadly). This is the very worst “keeping up with the Jones’s” mentality, motivated by the green-eyed monster only excusable in children under 3.

If you live in the UK in the 21st Century you are among the most privileged 0.1% of humans who have ever lived, with a higher living standard than 99.9% of humans who have ever walked the Earth, even if you are in the poorest decile of our society. I have been in that decile before, and it was hard. But taking it out through resentment of people even more vulnerable that you are and the small amount of comfort those of us who do make a net contribution to tax are able to provide for them to improve their life just a little bit because you are angry that they receive this extra help on top of the subsidies that we make to provide services to you, because your contributions don’t even cover your own costs even though you have options to improve your situation that disabled people do not, really is very low and so hypocritical and unpleasant.

GivenUpOnSleep · 11/04/2025 10:47

Sorry @Penguinmouse by “you” in that post I didn’t mean “you personally”! As you’ve not expressed such views. I meant the other posters on the thread who have done so repeatedly.

Wildflowers99 · 11/04/2025 10:52

MistressoftheDarkSide · 11/04/2025 10:35

"Did you mean ti be so rude?"

Now who's trying to shut down discussion? The post you are waving off in such a condescending manner has good points within it, and discussing the root if the mess we appear to be in might just be helpful.

I have more to say about your attitude to caring, but I'm on my way to do an expensive round trip to get stuff from my Dad's flat while he's in hospital and then make sure we get a proper update on his progress, possible discharge in time, a care package because unless he loses capacity any time soon he's not going to let me go near the bedsores on his rear myself, and various other things relating to being a completely unpaid carer. Which would be easier if various departments actually communicated with us, each other, and actually read notes. But hey ho, another day in personal responsibility paradise for me 🙄

What good points?

It’s a thought terminating cliche. It’s become the stock response to anyone who criticises people on benefits, or individuals who scam the system on some low level way. It isn’t backed up by fact in any way. It’s used by the same people who think the benefits bill is on the same level as the Commons bar tab. It’s a nonsense made up by people devoid of critical thought who desperately need a fairytale.

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