Would you pay this school fine or risk it at court

[Coastingtohell25]

I know there is a lot of opinions on talking the kids out of school for holidays but I will not drip feed and I feel like I shouldn’t have to pay the fine.

We were informed that this year the school were not allowed to make allowances and everyone’s holiday request would be declined and it’s not their fault ( okay so I get this )

however the situation is as followed

DC class are away on residential mon -Friday to a sort of PGL like place. DC can’t attend for medical reasons and to be honest there was no real attempt to make it possible for them to attend.
parents were informed that if not attended they would be expected to be at school but DC is the only one not going. So we have booked a similar type holiday as a family at a well known family holiday park that dc enjoys which was very cheap due to not being in the holidays.

this will lead to a fine and I begrudge paying it to to be honest. Would I be unreasonable to stand my ground on this one ?

I’m really sorry OP as I think it would be really unfair if you were fined for this but I think legally they could and would. Could you get any free legal advice to see if they could fight in on your behalf? Why should your child suffer and miss out because nobody would pay for the extra help they’d need at night. Otherwise I’m afraid you’re going to have to pay the fine. But that would really annoy me too.

Ten sessions very much does meet the threshold for referral.

I thought they were allowed up to 10 sessions of unauthorised absence before the fine kicks in? So you should get away with one week off anyway? Unless he's already had some unauthorised absence

I dont blame you for wanting to fight it. It's a ridiculous system. Loads of people at our school are taking term time holidays regardless of the fines.

Scotland's education system is in total crisis and has appallingly low results. I wouldn't personally be trumpeting the wonder of schools in Scotland .

Enjoy the holiday and don't pay the fine. Let it go to court, under the disability discrimination you should win. Child has a right to a holiday since the school didn't include him in theirs.

This is so unfair! Poor love is he sad to not be able to go?

I would consider :
a) request a meeting with the school and where you state lack of accessibility etc and your plans and then follow up in writing ( they have to send your details to the LA for the fine, they might not
b) could you go somewhere closer for the week and stay nearby so he can join in the daytime activities and stay with you ( air BnB / cottage etc) over night?
c) could you use his DLA to pay for the nursing to allow him to go?
d) who is your local authority cabinet member for education? I’d be emailing a d explaining the situation to them

Your mistake was in not fighting for your DS to have the right support to enable him to attend the PGL activity.

Wow! Some of the lack of empathy and awareness of the difficulties you and your ds faces from many posters here is quite mind-boggling.

What heartless jobs worth is going to issue this fine? Stand your ground OP, enjoy your holiday with your family and IF some idiot sees it fit to issue you with a fine...absolutely appeal the fine...many magistrates would see things with a more open mind than the lemming who issues it and the naysayers on here.

Can you get a medical certificate or other evidence to say that for medical reasons they can’t attend? So a sickness absence? That way it would be authorised absence.

There are two separate issues here.
Morally I think taking your son on holiday was absolutely correct. Miserable to be in school when others are enjoying themselves on the residential.

Fine
The fine should be looked at on a case by case basis, not blanket. However if it issued I’d pay it even if it seems unfair.

I did prosecuting for council for non school attendance. There is no way my head of legal services would have agreed a prosecution in these circumstances as we have to look at whether it “in the public interest”. This is the test used for
all prosecutions such as burglary etc.

However was many years ago so not sure what would happen now or your particular local authority. The court case under section 444(1) of Education Act 1996 is strict liability- did they attend or not. Discretion would come under what the sentence should be and the Magistrates when I was prosecuting would have taken a very dim view of us prosecuting the case. BUT still a record - is it worth that.

Discrimination
Definitely look at this. See if there is an outbound centre closer. Did the school take any steps to talk to local authority/CCG?

Not an area I know at all to know even whether legal aid was available.

Scotland has persistant absence rate that are half as high again as England’s. 30% compared to England’s 20%. Scotland copes, but at the expense of the worst off of their children.

I don’t mean OP is in the wrong in this particular instance. But the claim that Scotland’s schools’ do fine so OP is being put in a ridiculous situation is unsubstantiated. In general, Scotland’s schooling has become really substandard. It used to be brilliant but the SNP has absolutely fucked over Scottish kids.

The school is required by Law to accurately record the reasons for absence.

The school is required by Law to not authorise any holiday during term time.

The school is required by Law to follow the process for referral for a fine.

The LA is required by Law to follow the process.

The alternative is expecting somebody at the school to knowingly falsify the entries in a legal document that is linked constantly to the DfE to report in real time, to ignore multiple legal requirements and duties relating to the register.

The support (or lack of) to be able to facilitate attendance on a school trip is an entirely separate matter. Blackmailing the school/head to either falsify the register entries/instruct somebody far less important to falsify the entries and ignore the law on attendance or be faced with being sued/a Daily Mail article is not going to cause a Head to comply.

I would normally say pay the fine, but given the school could not meet your child's needs to allow them to go on the trip then the school should not be fining you for taking him away for a week to also enjoy a similar trip.

I'd be making it clear to the school that unless they authorised the holiday as educational (they can do that) then you will be going down the disability discrimination route.

There is no way they can expect your child to be on their own in school due to no fault of their own whilst their peers have fun.

I took a Y7 activity trip and had a pupil with many physical needs. The school paid for the child's 20 year old sibling to also come on the trip as a carer to deal with all night time medical needs as this meant the child could participate and stay. They had a fantastic time!

Could his DLA have not paid for this? This is precisely what DLA is intended for.

This assumes OP has nothing else to spend the money on for an extended period. Just 8 hours a night is £840 and she may have meant more hours. High rate DLA care is £110.40 a week in 2025.

1 million percent this. The roolz is the tail wagging the dog. Rules brought in to try and do something about shit parents who allow their DC to skive off school end up punishing good parents who are trying their best for their disadvantaged DC. Like those Coles family CFers who are always taking their DC out of school for paid for trips and then bragging about it on TikTok - how they don’t care/can afford the fine /stuff the school etc - makes me so angry 😡

I really feel for you are your DC @Coastingtohell25 . I think I’d take the holiday and pay the fine and take the path of least resistance this time round but absolutely would be taking the school to task about the discriminatory element.

I hope you all have a fantastic time and the weather holds for you!

I advise you to contact the SEN team at your LA for support on this. The trip should have been raised at his last annual review as it would have needed to be carefully planned to ensure he cold have attended at no additional cost to yourself.
We had a child with severe disabilities and when it was her year’s time to go on the residential, the whole trip was amended so she could be included. We booked somewhere much closer to school (an hour away), and had highly trained staff employed there as it was a place that focused on children (and adults) with a range of disabilities. It meant the children could go home each evening if the parents wanted that, we arranged for transport for the disabled child and her 1:1 travelled in the transport to and from the place daily. We did have a couple of parents whos older children had done the usual PGL before moaning, but after the trip, every single child had nothing but praise for the trip.
I’m very surprised that with a child who has such a severe disability this wasn’t raised by the professionals who support him.

Fair enough. I must make it clear though that I believe this child should have been supported by the school and support services to attend this trip - and if that wasn’t possible, then a different type of residential should have been booked by the school.

How would that fit in with the DC being taken on a holiday offering similar activities?
The issue is, why should the OP get fined in the first place seeing as the school have failed in their duty to support ALL pupils?

@Coastingtohell25 when you have time I have added links to actual information.

Single mums with disabled children tend to be pretty stretched financially and have a lot on their plate - you seriously think it is the mother's duty to FIGHT the school/LA to provide what they should, and potentially to fund it with £££ of the child's money?

I posted the DfE guidance around the alternative education, above, including the he responsibility on the school.

@Coastingtohell25 What is your ‘alternative educational activity’ OP? A booked family trip to an outdoor education centre is very different to a holiday camp, for instance.

It's not an Approved Educational Activity and therefore cannot be recorded under the B code.

Code B: Attending any other approved educational activity

309. The pupil is attending a place for an approved educational activity that is not a sporting activity or work experience. The educational activity must take place during the session for which it is recorded.

310. A pupil can only be recorded as attending a place for an approved educational activity if:

the place is somewhere other than the school, another school where the pupil is registered, or a place where educational provision has been arranged for the pupil by a local authority under section 19(1) of the Education Act 1996 or sections 42(2) or 61(1) of the Children and Families Act 2014;

• the activity is of an educational nature;
• the school has approved the pupil’s attendance at the place for the activity; and • the activity is supervised by a person considered by the school to have the appropriate skills, training, experience and knowledge to ensure that the activity takes place safely and fulfils the educational purpose for which the pupil’s attendance has been approved. Supervision means the pupil is physically supervised by someone who meets this definition.

311. Schools must also record the nature of the approved educational activity (regulation 10(5)), examples are:
     • attending transition days at other schools;
     • attending courses at college;
     • attending unregistered alternative provision arranged by the school.

312. Schools have responsibilities for the safeguarding and welfare of pupils attending an approved educational activity. The school will need to be satisfied that appropriate measures have been taken to safeguard the pupil. Schools should ensure that they have in place arrangements whereby the provider of the educational activity notifies the school of any absences by the pupil. The school must record the pupil’s absence using the relevant absence code.

It's not an AEA. It's a holiday. Which the school must record accurately.

@NeverDropYourMooncup

I too, posted the guidance, above and the points related to saying this is an educational activity. PP’s see determined to ignore the DfE documents that schools and LA’s have to abide by.

Too easy to talk of ‘jobs worth’ and blame individual staff, whilst suggesting unworkable answers to addressing this.

I see your point OP it’s completely unfair, but I don’t think you will win.
i would send him to school Monday morning, collect at lunchtime and take him on your own holiday, then he only misses 9 sessions & you don’t get a fine…