Would you pay this school fine or risk it at court

[Coastingtohell25]

I know there is a lot of opinions on talking the kids out of school for holidays but I will not drip feed and I feel like I shouldn’t have to pay the fine.

We were informed that this year the school were not allowed to make allowances and everyone’s holiday request would be declined and it’s not their fault ( okay so I get this )

however the situation is as followed

DC class are away on residential mon -Friday to a sort of PGL like place. DC can’t attend for medical reasons and to be honest there was no real attempt to make it possible for them to attend.
parents were informed that if not attended they would be expected to be at school but DC is the only one not going. So we have booked a similar type holiday as a family at a well known family holiday park that dc enjoys which was very cheap due to not being in the holidays.

this will lead to a fine and I begrudge paying it to to be honest. Would I be unreasonable to stand my ground on this one ?

I generally think the NI education system is good and fair. I am glad I didn’t stay in England for schooling for my children. You could be as poor as a mouse and do well at school. You don’t have to move your family of four to a one bed flat within 0.7 miles of an excellent school. We have very few fee paying schools. There are schools in deprived areas which are excellent. We have no teacher shortages. It’s actually hard for a teacher to get a permanent post. We still have humanity/common sense and see the people instead of rules on attendance. We out perform England and Wales for GCSE and A-level results.

I would give the school a choice, drop the fine or deal with my litigation. I have no problem hiring a solicitor if my child faces discrimination. Generally just a stern conversation, the fact that they know I understand my child’s rights, and have the intellectual and financial resources to fight for them is enough, so it has not come to that yet.

A child was denied attending a school activity because of medical issues. That is blatant discrimination. The parent then decided not to make the child suffer by sitting alone at school while the other children enjoyed an activity. Attending school would have exacerbated the discrimination. Your actions were designed to mitigate the damage done by the school. You might have to pay the fine, but the
school is going to have much bigger problems.

Given the blatant disability discrimination, I would be tempted to fight this.

Well, they're not making it possible for him to attend the school trip, why should he have to be the only tiled excluded from the trip?

@Coastingtohell25

Personally, I'd go to court, to have my say about their lack of inclusivity if nothing else. Is it not bad enough they didn't do what was necessary to include him, then when you offer a completely reasonable alternative for him, they want to fine you because you didn't think him sitting in a younger class all week beneficial.

surely the courts won't find the School's behaviour acceptable??

FMD

YADNBU to do what you have done and no local authority in their right mind would pursue prosecution in this situation. Surely?!?

schools and local authorities still have flexibility not to issue a fine and I’d be complaining very loudly if they have in this situation, it’s madness.

A reasonable adjustment might have been for the school to have planned a closer trip which would have been no detriment to the other children but which would have allowed your child to participate during the day. Whoever was planning the trip should have worked consideration of your child into the trip from them outset. That is the law - an anticipatory duty.

reasonable adjustments don’t have to made at all costs but a bit of imagination here could have helped your child join in ☹️

I agree with you but I very much doubt you would win in court and if you didn’t you would receive a criminal record so I would just pay the fine.

Our LA/ school have said people will only be fined if 10 sessions are missed so could you send your DC to school Monday morning, pick up after registration and then go on your holiday (they will only miss 9 sessions).

Can u not just say hes off sick for the week

Do it OP. Start a crowd funder. Am sure enough pissed off parents would donate for court costs. I will chuck you a tenner.

Regardless of which route you choose you have absolutely done the right thing to ensure your son has same opportunities.

I used to be a teacher, you actually might and it’s a small might get away without paying the fine.
Schools do have a little bit of discretion here and the fact he is being denied the ability to go because they won’t put in the appropriate plan and arrange the funding could work in your favour here.
If you have any evidence of their ‘attempt’ to help you by telling you the trip is closer, then arranging it 4 hours away, it could also work In your favour.

Im a parent now and I can completely understand why you would die on this hill and I hope you go down with a fight.
Good luck Op

Schools are allowed to allow absences for exceptional circumstances. Have you actually completed an absence request form?
If you explain how your child is unable to attend the trip due to health grounds and it would do more harm than good for their mental health to be in school without their class.
Alternatively, if you are going to a site that doesn’t allow access until 4pm - send your dc to school on the Monday morning. Collect at 11am for an appointment, then they are poorly for the rest of the week. You need 10 sessions (5 days) off to be fined. They would only have 4.5.

That's how it used to be in England, in saner times.

I'd take some advice from a specialist education lawyer before going to court, but in principle I am fully behind your actions, and you are absolutely doing the right thing by your DC in my book.

I don't think people get out of fines because they find ways to justify it to themselves i mean sure it may happen but I teach my child do the right thing in the first place as it is the mature thing to do and also simpler

Tell them he's sick!

Get some advice from a solicitor, not MN. Personally I would be happy to refuse to pay the fine and let a magistrate’s court decide, that’s what courts are for , to arbitrate and reach a fair decision.

I would totally refuse in your position. I’d also be tempted to try and get my MP involved.

Is your school oversubscribed? If not you could deregister and “home educate” for a week.

This is one of those cases that really highlights how stupid the whole system is. I hope you and your son have a fantastic time.

Are the school even vaguely sensible?

Its a bit of a fudge, but it might be an option to agree that your child’s health condition means that they’re not well enough to participate in the main school activity that week and thus you’ll keep them off sick and do something with them that is within their health capacity that week. ‘Roughly like you suggested school, that way I can be their carer during the activitivities that are compatible’.

**

I am not familiar with how the school fines work, is the school actually persuing this fine and taking it to court?

I think that's absolutely shocking if so. They haven't made it possible for him to attend the trip. Of course he is going to get more out of a holiday with his family than kicking about the school with none of his peers and likely not being taught anything and probably feeling quite isolated.

I don't understand why people are so black and white and judgemental on here, I really don't think it's a true representation of real life.

I would have thought the school would be reluctant to pursue this due to them essentially letting your child down and the possible repercussions for them. The fine system in England is such a blunt tool and makes so sense to me. Glad I don't live there.

As I'm not in UK, every time this school fines subject comes up I am astounded again that it's actually real. Is there anyother country in the world that does this? When I had a few tough years I didn't even pay the school fees ( not a private school just standard local comprehensive - but there is always a fee for something, art supplies, food tech , etc). The only thing I paid for was uniform and excursions. It made not a scrap of difference to how they were treated. If I had been charged a fine for taking the kids out of school during term time I would have ignored it.
Im intrigued what happens if you don't pay? Do they take your children away in the middle of the night? 😆

The school only has to make Reasonable adjustments. Paying thousands for nursing care is not a reasonable adjustment.

I see you've engaged with the school and the LEA OP, that's good (it would be the LEA who would actually issue the fine, not school).

Have they actually said they would fine you, or are you assuming?

If you don't get anywhere, I'd suggest contacting your MP. This is exactly the sort of situation a high level intervention from them would be helpful. Even if the person issuing fines feels they have no discretion, the Director of Education certainly does.

Otherwise if they'll fine you for ten sessions, make it nine, as others have said.

I think its wrong to fine parents. Very few other countries do it. Its overreach in my opinion - most children will get far more out of an overseas trip etc than they will sitting in a classroom.

Do you believe the “right” thing to do is to follow all rules, at all times and to never challenge something unjust?

Legally you may or may not be able to successfully challenge this on the basis your child received alternative education. It would be worth investigating this avenue in advance as, frankly, they are likely to just be babysat in school if everyone else in their class is away on a residential that week. I struggle with why a head wouldn’t want to actively support you taking that approach. An authorised absence is a different reason to avoid a fine and even if the school will never sign off on that basis they could support you in challenging any fine on another basis.

If you don’t have the energy to fight it I tend to agree calling child in sick over this period or limiting their absence to 4/4.5 days if that avoids a fine in your LA would not be unreasonable under the circumstances.