A casual friend has just told me she's standing as a Reform candidate

[Mumblechum0]

And I have no clue how to respond.

I've always liked her, we're not close, ie don't do anything just the two of us, but are often in the same group at parties, book group, joint birthday bashes etc.

She's very posh, professional job, husband's a head fund manager (he walks round in a tweed cap and goes shooting on his family estate etc etc...just setting the scene, she's well educated etc.)

Anyway, she messaged me yesterday to say that she wanted me to know in advance that she's standing as a Reform candidate in our local elections; she didn't ask for my support, but didn't want me to just see her face on a leaflet through the door.

I'm married to a black man, have a mixed race son.

I haven't responded yet, as I don't know whether it's best to just ignore, or to say thanks for letting me know, or actually to say I'm quite horrified (which is my actual reaction).

Any ideas?

Before the General Election last year our local regional news station interviewed a group of middle aged people to see who they were thinking of voting for. Out of the six or seven giving their views the only one thinking of voting Reform was black.

I highly doubt there is a friend.

Sorry can you elaborate on that?

Reform was a new party, only a couple of months old, and it got more votes than Labour. It's only due to the electoral system that these votes didn't translate into seats.

I've personally spoken to Reform candidates in candid chats, and I've read what they say in public. And I've never heard anything racist from them.

They are anti-immigration of any kind. Brexit was about white European immigration.

The closest thing I've ever heard to racism is anti-Islam rhetoric. But given that Islam is a religion, it's not easy to make the case for that being racist.

In fact I've heard some candidates very clearly say they have no issue with skin colour. It's unchecked immigration (and for some Islamic culture, ie anti women etc).

Of course it could be possible that some Reform members or candidates are racist, but to assume that Reform is automatically racist has no basis in reality.

@Goldenbearyour earlier post on builders to solicitors etc. if that was across the board you’d see it in MRP polls etc

There’s been some threads / posts on support for Reform collapsing due to Lowe or Trump etc but so far they are moving upwards, Labour went down after Spring statement.

Oh I'm sure she does.

You're perfectly aware that Farage has been around since the 90s. He's a long standing figure in British politics and led UKIP.

He left UKIP and started Reform, their core message is anti immigration. Reform may be a new party but Farage isn't.

It's pretty obvious, given their lack of quality candidates or experience, that people would vote for a pig with a rosette if it was grunting about getting immigrants out.

Reform have a few seats. Yes, their popularity surged after Musk stirred up a load of anti Muslim feeling. Some people lack critical thinking and don't realise when they're being played.

Was it? Oh by name you mean😂, yes, we never had a party run by Farage did we...oh hang on.

No they didn't win the election with FPTP which has been the system that every party had to work with and no one else was whining.

The closest thing I've ever heard to racism is anti-Islam rhetoric. But given that Islam is a religion, it's not easy to make the case for that being racist.

Cobblers, you really think they are talking about Islam the religion and not just 'muslims' in general?

people can still be friends and have different views

So anti Muslim isn't racist? What?

Yes when they are not morally repugnant.

Views that is.

in what way in terms of those views and how are those views different from someone who is part of the main 2 parties ?

Actually Brexit was mainly about keeping East Europaeans -and to some extent all Continentals- out, though it was certainly latched onto by colour-prejudiced racists.

And earlier there was a lot of anti-Irish hostility in England.

Some of the worst forms of racism in history did not involve people of different skin colour: e.g. the Nazis and Europaean Jews.

But certainly colour prejudice plays a large and nasty part in racism. Just not the only part.

Many people have explained on this thread again and again but personally I am a centrist, I'm not into extremes and values that are so opposite to my moral code, basically views that maybe questioned at the pearly gates.

It's interesting because one of the largest foreign populations in UK prisons is Albanian and there are Albanian gangs in the UK. Human trafficking from Albania is huge and many are Muslims.

Reform don't bang on about Albanians though🤔

To an extent. All parties have people with unpleasant views; and e.g. Lee Anderson was a member of both the Labour and Conservative parties before finding his home in Reform.

However, taking a harsh attitude to people who are 'different' seems to be one of the main points of Reform, more than other parties Its predecessor parties, UKIP and the Brexit Party, at least had an overriding policy: getting out of the EU. Not a policy I agree with, but at least a policy that went beyond just being as right-wing as possible. Now that we're out of the EU, the Reform Party attracts loads of people who just want a crackdown on anything post-1950s or in some cases post-1850s.

Reform was a new party, only a couple of months old, and it got more votes than Labour

Where did you get that idea fom?

Reform got 4,117,610 votes. Labour got 9,708,716 votes. Tories 6,828,925. Lib dems 3,519,143.

Eta: Reform isn't a "new party". It is the latest incarnation of the Farage party.

but what is the good to be gained from doing what may be morally correct if it bankrupt's the uk ?

But they do bang on (to a degree) about Islam/Muslim. Proving what I wrote earlier that anti-Islam isn't racist, as Muslim isn't a race or skin colour.

They are opposed to Islamic culture and religion. That doesn't make them racist, and in fact it's perfectly legitimate to oppose any set of beliefs. And yes, before you ask, I think it's just as legitimate to oppose Christianity, Judaism*, Sikhism and any other religion.

*With Judaism it's not as clear cut, though, as Jews are a distinct ethnic group, converts notwithstanding. Muslims, conversely, are very diverse in the ethnic and racial makeup of their adherents.

Sorry I was going by memory. I stand corrected.

They did get more tha 40% as many votes as Labour, so nowhere near as unpopular as some PPs might want you to think.

The vast majority of voters-86%-did not vote for Reform.

I think I would have to ask exactly what it is about Farage et al she finds appealing