To expect my son who lives in New Zealand to facetime regularly

[CloudBuster66]

First time posting and a bit nervous but ...
having read the poster who was wanting her son to come to Friday night takeaway every month and reading the replies made me think:
Situation is I have 2 x DS, both have lived in the antipodes for the past 8 years. Don't have any other children.

Due to Covid we didn't see them for 5 years, and in the past 3 years have seen them once each for visits here, and then both at once when DH and I went for a month's holiday last year.
DS1 was challenging in his late teens and early 20s but turned his life around whilst working abroad for several years before returning and then emigrating 8 years ago. He gave me (not DH, he is very laid back) a lot of headaches when he was younger and at one point moved out and did not speak to us for a year - though the door was always open for him.

Now DS1 is fully settled with a girlfriend and good job, 12000 miles away. He is not one for talking much but seemed to enjoy our visit last year.

We have a WhatsApp group for the 4 of us (DH, me, DS1 and DS2) which he engages with some of the time. DS2 has always face timed us up to several times a week, wherever he is in the world, but we have to cajole DS1 into speaking or facetiming us, it is usually reserved for major life events.

AIBU to write him a long letter saying I am sorry if I did anything wrong in the past and asking him if he could phone us more often?

DH and I had DS1 quite (not very) young, and we have always treated him and DS2 both the same and they say they had a happy childhood.

I do not want to emotionally blackmail DS1, but I miss them both so much all the time. I don't want to complain because I have friends in worse positions who don't have children around any more or don't communicate with them so I try to be optimistic. My DH is lovely and we have a close extended family and plenty of friends. But with DS1 being so settled so far away (DS2 is coming to live back in the UK for a bit soon), I am worried about him becoming a stranger due to his lack of communication. When we do speak to him he does not give much away and says our conversation is boring if we have nothing noteworthy to report.
(I am also concerned about never seeing any prospective grandchildren and them not knowing who we are, but that is another worry for the future).

How often do you FaceTime him?

The reality is that when someone moves abroad the relationship invariably changes, and from what you’ve said you weren’t particularly close in the first place.

You’re not unreasonable to want to speak to him more, but you’re very unreasonable to write a letter demanding that he talks to you several times a week. And if letters is the only way you communicate then that says a lot about the relationship you currently have.

FWIW I grew up in another country long before mobile phones and FaceTime existed. My parents used to speak to their family maybe once every three months or so, because it was so expensive. And I never met any of them until I was 5.

If you’re only seeing him once or twice every eight years or so then I’m sorry to say that you’re unlikely to have much of a relationship with any GC, especially given he’s not a communicator.

These are the pitfalls of having loved ones abroad. The relationship changes, and if that relationship was strained in the first place, then it’s unlikely to change back.

Hi, I wasn't going to "demand" that he facetimes several times a week, I didn't make that clear, I just meant more like once a month!

Also our relationship is better than you deduce, for example he previously suggested that when we retire we could take extended visits to help look after the theoretical grandchildren in the long holidays.

What about setting up a family Zoom call every couple of weeks, I.e. you, DH, both of your sons ( and their partners can join in if they wish to)? That way, there’s less pressure for DS1 to talk exclusively to you and if he can’t make a call, you can chat to DS2 instead, or vice versa.

DH’s family is scattered and that’s what they do. His parents and the siblings get on a call and chat about all sorts. Sometimes ppl can’t make a call or can only stay on for a few minutes, but it’s a way to touch base regularly. I say hi occasionally, but usually I let them get on with it.

suggested that when we retire we could take extended visits to help look after the theoretical grandchildren in the long holidays

Cheeky sod.

Is it possible for them to bring you over as a dependant or for you to get a visa yourselves? I wouldn't want to live so far away from both my child personally.

He cannot afford to sponsor us both but said that if one of us dies the "winner" would get to go to NZ (this is our family sense of humour, no offence intended!)

TBH the most times I have seen him on face time have been when DS2 has been with him in person, it is difficult to schedule with work and time differences but it was easier with them both in the same place as DS2 would be more likely to answer the phone or agree to a call.

And what about the DS who is moving back to the UK?

His plans are still fluid so I am just hoping he doesn't end up in a 3rd country!

Time differences are tough. In DH’s family, they range from 12 hours to three- so sone ppl are calling in the early evening while others are having their morning coffee!

That was in response to the poster suggesting you move to New Zealand.

I mean if your other DS lives elsewhere, or is even coming back to the UK, that sends a very clear message to him when you choose to move closer to the DS you don’t have much contact with.

And I wouldn’t assume that that would make any difference to your relationship, there are plenty of posters on here who move closer to their families on the promise of a better relationship, and regret doing so when nothing changes.

How often do you actually speak to or hear from him?

Op, he's grown up and flown the nest. He has a new life and a new family. Writing him a letter demanding he contact you more is only going to irritate.

You have a family WhatsApp group, he will see all your news, and knows you are there for him. I'd avoid pressurising him, just keep him informed and wait for him to get through this phase in his life.

I don’t think this is a good approach. I know you miss him, but it’s a testament to your parenting that he’s flown the nest and doing well. It’s not bringing up the kids that is the hardest, it’s letting go of them. Personally, although I lived close enough to my mother to visit regularly, I got so tired of the same conversation over and over. I think he’s still close to you in his own way. The boys are different personalities. Keep up your WhatsApp and just keep communication open.

I think there's nothing to be lost from casually mentioning in a conversation to him that you miss both of them and would love to have a weekly or fortnightly chat with them.

I lived abroad for 5 years and did sometimes get wrapped up in my own life and forget to schedule a call in with my parents but was always happy for them to arrange one (but they'd defaulted to not wanting to come across as intrusive hence the long periods between). Once my mum told me she missed me, I made an effort to contact them more regularly.

Easy to be a bit self absorbed when you're young 😅

I would write the letter, and tell him you miss him - could you schedule a family call regularly. Last Friday of every month for example. I would avoid any pressure. Make it a light suggestion, as it does sound like there was huge issues that have been somewhat minimised if he didn’t speak to you for a year.

I would celebrate the fact he has pulled his life together, and found a happy life op. He may not stay there, but even if he does he may not have children etc. Cross that bridge when you get to it.

I would probably plan to visit more often if you miss him. I think it’s better to be proactive in ways to see him, rather than trying to force him to do it. In this instance I think you need to make the effort as the parent.

Thank you @aginglikegazpacho and @Livingbytheocean I think that's good advice, I think some posters may have got the impression that I was going to write demanding a weekly facetime, whereas I was actually planning a light touch and intending to suggest face timing about once a month or so only. (So I was a bit taken aback/hurt by the vote saying that IABU)
I agree we have defaulted to not wanting to be intrusive, especially as he often doesn't answer due to being busy and working long hours, also I work shifts so even planning weekend calls is difficult.

It is hard to visit more often due to the expense, but I am constantly saving for the next trip. Also planning to sometimes arrange a meet-up "half way" (across the World) in between visits.

When I lived overseas for 10 years I called my dm everyday and started skyping when dd1 was born so dm could see her and dd1 would know dm.

We've now returned to my home country and dh facetimes with his parents every month or so. But it's usually MIL who organises it.

If you messaged ds and said can I call you x time, would that work? Make them short calls, just a hey checking in with you, but setting the groundwork for when/if you have dgc, these calls will be routine and feel normal.

I voted YAVU because you didn’t describe a light touch note. You said you’d open by apologizing for “anything you might have done wrong in the past”. That is not light touch. That is telling him that the only reason for lacking calls must be that he’s mad at you and does set the tone of the letter to be emotional blackmail.

A casual note that it would be great to chat more and is there a monthly or every other month time that could work, if he’d like.

I live where my time zone is 12 to 13 hours ahead of my family so, especially with school and work there aren’t that many times that work so does need planning.

I think needing interaction with someone for your own happiness can feel like a drain on the other person. It makes them see talking to you as a chore or obligation that they are expected to tick off. I would suggest that you start to get excited and caught up in your own life so when you do speak with your son youre chatting from a positive place and not a needy place.
The relationship with my own mum is a bit like this, I would be happy to phone and hear about what she’s got up to, but i don’t like phoning and feeling like her happiness depends on me and i should be responsible for that

Some people don't like talking on the phone, video or not, and some (especially men) bond better by doing something together rather than just talking. If he is finding the zooms a chore, guilting him into doing more of them is not going to help. You need to get creative and find something you can "do" together, virtually. Can you suggest something like a family games night, where you play a game somehow via zoom, or something online like bridge or scrabble or even video games? work out together? take an online course together? practice another language together? I seem to remember during the pandemic there were companies set up to facilitate fun social things like this - are any of them still around?

While I absolutely understand the appeal of it - to say "whatever the issue is, we can work it out" - it's probably pointless to apologise generally for anything you may have done wrong. If your child wants an apology, it'll be for something very specific. You can't provide that if you don't know what the issue is.

He's still willing to talk, so that's good! If he's saying he's bored by the talks because there's nothing new to talk about, maybe make them LESS frequent, so there is more to talk about when you do get together to (virtually) catch up?

FWIW, I lived in Tasmania for a bit, with my family in Scotland and in California - it can feel like more than a world away. But how the person who has left home and family reacts to that - can I forget about home and family for a little bit while I work out my own stuff/find a new life, or do I feel pulled towards them? - can change a tremendous amount based on circumstances and time passed. If you can, please be open to your children coming back to you in their own time, even as it hurts that they may not seem to need you as much right now.

If he doesn’t want to FaceTime, why would you demand it of him?

I wasn't very close to my parents and we weren't an "expressive" family (they're both gone now and I'm in my late 60s). Mum phoned me every week on a Sunday and I have to say that talking to her was like pulling teeth - I had to do all the conversation and when I asked her what she/they'd been up to or what was new, she'd invariably answer "Nothing".

I've no idea if you make conversation easy or hard, OP - but I really wish someone had advised my mum to jot down a list of things to tell me or talk about during the week and have it to hand when she called. Maybe your son finds the conversations hard?

Do you arrange a time to speak before you facetime or do you just do it randomly? DS1 is keeping his space from you. Call without arranging a time and the chance is he is busy so he won't answer.

Something about the tone of your post comes across as very much living in the past or a heavy expectation of response from ds1. You need to give him the space and clear the expectations you have of him owing you contact. You will push him away otherwise.