To think too many people are happy to live off benefits forever?

[BritishQueue]

Okay, I know this is a touchy subject here on MN, but I need to ask, AIBU to think that too many people are just choosing to stay on universal credit rather than work?

Obviously, I’m not talking about people who genuinely can’t work - disabilities, carers, etc (even though a lot of those who claim to be unfit for work are perfectly capable, and I’ve seen “carers” for people who don’t actually need any care…). But I know multiple people who are completely able-bodied and yet have no intention of ever getting a job. They say things like “it’s not worth it” or “I’d be worse off working,” and honestly, I don’t get it. I work full-time, pay tax, and yet I see people getting rent paid, extra handouts, and still managing holidays and luxuries I can’t afford. Not to mention that a lot of women think the government should subsidise their SAHM lifestyle.

I just don’t understand how it’s fair? Surely benefits should be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice? AIBU?

I am self-employed, net contributor, scared to say 'never claimed' as in tempting fate (you never know your future), but I don't have a problem with native Brits claiming benefits and not working - their ancestors built this country when there was no socialised medicine, no council housing, no benefits. Genuinely don't have a problem. This equanimity however goes out of the window when foreigners claim benefits. I am not talking about economic migrants, I am talking about a sizeable chunk of East Europeans (especially Russians - why are they here?) who came here to work, figured out how to game the system and now claim. Boils my piss.

They only get 6 months to find a job and support themselves, or they are deported, but don't let facts get in the way of your xenophobia.

Most people I know who are on UC or PIP or were on JSA etc in the past would have much preferred to work and were either completely unable to find or to do a job.

I've known a number that I was less comfortable with. Deliberately performing badly in interviews for jobs they didn't really want, because they were holding out for a dream job however unrealistic. I think that it's right to get work as soon as possible when society is giving you money to sustain you whilst unemployed.

And a others who could manage some work (albeit not a permanent full time job), but who couldn't afford to mess up their benefits by doing bits of work here and there. And that's a problem with the system, when it's effectively discouraging work.

Plus a few with mental health problems which I suspect would be helped by the right kind of job, long-term. Unemployment is often unhelpful for those prone to mental illness.

As I said, it's a very small number, both a tiny proportion of claimants (anecdotally IME, and more importantly statistically), and I would say that I've known more people who are dodging tax than wrongfully claiming benefits.

I also know people who've really deserved PIP but had an awful time getting it. No idea how to solve the problem of dodgy claims and unnecessary claims without making life even harder for people who genuinely need the support and already have incredibly hard lives.

One thing I'd do though is to mandate a minimum level of child support payable by the non-resident parent to the resident parent, deductible from income if it's ever in arrears.

If the NRP can't or won't pay, the government gives the money to the RP and then claims it back from the NRP, court enforced with penalties if necessary. It would be a debt that cannot be written off, much like student loans. If income is insufficient, it should come from assets.

I think this would lift a huge number of children out of poverty. Not exactly benefits I know, but certainly related.

I agree, OP. I know people who have limited to no desire to work ever, and are instilling that exact same lack of work ethic in their children. My cousins are prime examples - multiple children, never worked a day, various issues which mean an uptick in state benefits. And whilst I’m at it, and people can bash this all they want but I care not, it boils my blood when people refer to UC as ‘being paid’ or ‘payday.’

You sound like an extremely unpleasant person. With zero ability to understand any life situation or choices but your own.

But they are being paid, it is grammatically correct

You do realise even single mothers are hounded as soon as their kids turn 3 to work 30 hours? They’re put forward for interviews and get sanctioned if they don’t attend. In my town there is no nursery spaces available.

The only people I know that live the life of Riley on the dole are fiddling it. Such as ‘single’ mums who actually have a partner in a well off job.

I’m currently looking for work (I have a 1 and 3yo). All of my clothes are from the charity shop, haven’t been on holiday in 7 years and eat the kids leftovers most evenings. I’m certainly not raking it in on UC.

Makes me laugh when people like OP say they would be better off on benefits. Normally always the ones that have a large mortgage, multiple cars and go on numerous holidays.

I can’t work , haven’t been able to for a very long time. I’ll always be on benefits. It’s not ideal or what I wanted but I won’t be made to feel guilty because I know if I tried to work I’d end up very seriously unwell. Not many people in RL see me or know my situation so I can for the most part avoid judgement

My sister lives off benefits and has no intention of ever working. She managed to get her very mildly autistic kids, all in full time education at normal schools, assessed as disabled for extra money and is on about £2500 a month. I don’t dislike her as a person, but I dislike the system where there’s zero incentive for her to work

@BritishQueue YABU "to think that too many people are just choosing to stay on UC rather than work" for two simple reasons:
i) How many is "too many"? Put a figure on it.
ii) How do you know what their motivation is for claiming UC? i.e. how do you know they are "choosing" to claim it rather than work? (Incidentally, 40% of working people are also claiming UC to top up their low incomes.)
I'm afraid you betrayed your bigotry when you used the word "scrounger", based on mere anecdotal evidence from what you've "seen with my own eyes". How many people in your orbit have you observed "choosing" to claim UC? 10? 50? 100?
Unfortunately, it's always ignorant people who start threads like this, i.e. people who have done no independent research whatsoever (looking at the NEET stat's tell you nothing other than the percentage of people not in education, employment or training - they tell you nothing of the why) and that's why threads like this met are with such derision.
So, let's give you some example facts:
A healthy single person with no caring responsibilities aged under 25 would receive the Standard element of UC of £71.93pw (the same person aged over 25 would receive £90.90pw)
If the under-25yr old was living independently and so had rent liability they would receive the housing element of UC, in line with their housing need (e.g. a room in a house share), in addition to the Standard element above. The housing element is restricted by the Local Housing Allowance (LHA) which is set by local authorities as, obviously, comparable properties in London and, for example, Middlesbrough would command quite different rents. So, in my local town a room in a house share costs between £150 and £196pw in rent. However, the LHA for this area for a room in a house share is just £97.31pw, so the UC claimant would have to top up their rent from the rest of their UC payment (of £71.93pw) by at least £52.69pw, leaving them with just £19.24pw to live on (to cover utilities, food, clothes, mobile phone, etc.). How many people do you think would "choose" to live on such a low income if they had the option to work? 🙄

Xenophobia is the dislike of foreigners - not the dislike of scroungers from abroad. I love wealthy foreigners, who prop up our luxury industries, I adore them - you know the ones who are regularly scammed by our car manufacturers, Selfridges, etc. etc. The ones who put their children on full fees to boarding schools and pay for their little darlings and also bursaries for your children. I adore foreigners in our universities, paying far too much - same principle, they pay for themselves and our subsidised UK student places. I love them - I am an internationalist in this regard. I love them filling up rip-off restaurants in the UK, paying silly fees to go on the Royal Scotsman and fill up our hotels and tip our people generously. I can't stand foreign chancers and scroungers - is that a problem?

6 months to find a job or deported, eh? In 2023, over one million foreign nationals claimed benefits in the UK, with households including at least one foreign national receiving over £7.5 billion in Universal Credit, according to government figures - these figures are official. Deported, my arse.

What’s wrongly claiming disability? Is that where someone has a disability but others with no disability or understanding of it claims they don’t?
Where does that stop? Person A may have a hidden disability and thrive at work coping brilliantly, meanwhile person B with the same disability cannot function in the workplace and finds it impossible to do their work. Person A then feels bitter towards person B and claims they are perfectly capable of working because they themselves manage perfectly well with the same disability so believes person B shouldn’t get any benefits. Does this mean person B is wrongly claiming disability if they claim they are unable to work while person A continues to do so?

I'm probably one of those scroungers, certainly think most people would judge my situation like that - on benefits for years, sits on her arse all day doing nothing but owns nice things, DH doesn't work either, one kid still at home. Ocado food shops three times a month.

So most people would see us and presume scrounger but they don't know about my crippling mental health issues and the fact that DH needs to be home so I'm not alone and don't kill myself. I don't tell people about my diagnosis and when I rarely leave the house (thanks agoraphobia) I'm well dressed and groomed with full make up and smile at people because it's part of my armour, its a shield to get me out of the house for the hour I can cope with before losing it.

Don't judge people on what you see of their life because it isn't even 10% of their reality.

I’ve never read anything so similar to my own experience of life. I understand totally

but it’s not financially viable for her to get a full time job and then throw that money away on childcare.

"Throw that money away on childcare"??!

Taking care of your kids or paying someone else to do it cos you have to work to pay the bills - who also have to pay rent, food, utilities etc. - is NOT throwing your money away! Kids are precious. You are outsourcing care. Be thankful they are trained to do it and have your kids' best interests at heart.

Ridiculous attitude. Then don't have kids and "throw your money away" on going round the world. Or get into hobbies.

Everything costs money. It's life.

If they can prove there are childcare places then they would not be sanctioned. There is actually a nationwide shortage of child minders so some may be able to do that themselves as a job. It's hardly being hounded to be asked to try to go back to work. Also I work full time, buy my clothes from Vinted, have't had a proper holiday in 25 years. Being broke isnt the preserve of people on benefits.

Obviously she didn’t choose to be a single parent! Her partner who used to earn a six figure salary ran off with his 20 year old lover! What is the poor woman to do?!

You have a one year old and are hounded to work?

@HowDoYouSolveAProblemLikeMyRear "And others who could manage some work (albeit not a permanent full time job), but who couldn't afford to mess up their benefits by doing bits of work here and there. And that's a problem with the system, when it's effectively discouraging work." That's a problem which should be fixed to some extent by the Govt's latest benefit reform proposals with the "Right to try" work - so claimants can try doing a job, but if they can't manage it they won't have to go through the rigmarole of the DWP closing their existing claim, having to start a new claim and having to wait five weeks to be paid UC again (which, of course, immediately puts them in rent arrears unless they have some savings or can borrow their rent for a month).

My DD is 18 and lost her job last year. She has applied for every job going, mostly she doesn't even get an interview. I can see her heading towards depression.
She does volunteer work 3 X a week and she's not alone. I'm sick of these threads. Not everyone on benefits is a scrounger (as has been said you do have to prove you've been looking for work). I wonder if people like you have actually tried to get a job lately. Too many people applying for too few positions. And too many young people get overlooked because they don't have experience ( because no-one will give them a job). It's not as simple as you think.

So? If there's 30 hours of work why is it better to employ one person for 30 hours and have one person with no job than to have two people on 15 hrs?

The people who evade paying tax bother me far more, tbh.

I’ve been on benefits and I’ve never been better off for it. People think it’s an easy life but for me as a single parent I was better off financially in work.

No I meant when the child turns 3 they expect you to go back but I’m currently looking anyways. My friends baby just turned 1 (few weeks older than mine) and they rang her saying they wanted her to prepare to go back to work. She has to go for meetings every few weeks. I think they will lower the age of returning to work soon.

@Beeloux "Makes me laugh when people like OP say they would be better off on benefits. Normally always the ones that have a large mortgage, multiple cars and go on numerous holidays." I agree. This mind-numbingly ignorant narrative that benefit claimants are living high on the hog really needs to stop. It always comes from people who are utterly clueless about our welfare benefits system.