To think too many people are happy to live off benefits forever?

[BritishQueue]

Okay, I know this is a touchy subject here on MN, but I need to ask, AIBU to think that too many people are just choosing to stay on universal credit rather than work?

Obviously, I’m not talking about people who genuinely can’t work - disabilities, carers, etc (even though a lot of those who claim to be unfit for work are perfectly capable, and I’ve seen “carers” for people who don’t actually need any care…). But I know multiple people who are completely able-bodied and yet have no intention of ever getting a job. They say things like “it’s not worth it” or “I’d be worse off working,” and honestly, I don’t get it. I work full-time, pay tax, and yet I see people getting rent paid, extra handouts, and still managing holidays and luxuries I can’t afford. Not to mention that a lot of women think the government should subsidise their SAHM lifestyle.

I just don’t understand how it’s fair? Surely benefits should be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice? AIBU?

Not specifically talking about the disabled, but benefit claimants in general. And in my experience a lot of very severely disabled people were and are allowed to do a certain amount of permitted work and still claim benefit. It’s specifically intended as therapeutic and the hours and pay are strictly limited. This is where successive governments have sourced their ideas on allowing benefit claimants to ‘trial’ work and reclaim their current level of benefits if it doesn’t work out. These schemes have always been around in one form or another but each new government of the day like you to believe it was they who thought of it

I know what you mean. The right to try work is not some new thing at all.
As long your work does not contradict the reasons you are on benefits, then you are already allowed to work anyway.

I don't understand why people get so defensive about benefits posts.

The OP clearly stated they were not talking about those who fairly claim it due to disabilities etc etc. They are discussing the ones who ARE defrauding and abusing the system. People start hounding the OP straight away WITHOUT even reading the post..

As many of us are UK Tax Payers, why are we not allowed to be annoyed that some people USE that tax payer money to not work for no other reason then they don't want to. And whether people want to accept it or not - they exist.
That is a very worthy cause to be annoyed about?!

I have a family member like this, has 4 children (first at 17) because she openly admits she does not want to work. 3 more children later, She has a brand new HA home, with all bills etc entirely funded by Benefits. None of her children have additional needs, she simply has another as soon as the youngest is able to have funded hours as that would mean she is asked to visit the Job Centre.

People fiddle the system because they are lazy, the same way people use the system correctly because they need it.

LET PEOPLE BE ANNOYED ABOUT IT!!!

That opinion is formed entirely from a total lack of understanding of the nature of disability. It’s also one of the most ableist and offensive comments l’ve seen for a very long time. You should be ashamed.

They have posted it in other threads too. Is disgusting.
The disabled people I know with kids are absolutely amazing people, and do a fab job of raising their kids. Some work, and some don't.

I’m perfectly happy to let people be annoyed about the genuine issue. What I’m not prepared to let stand is the way many posters use these kinds of threads to spout ableist shit and demonstrate that they neither know nor care anything about people on disability benefits beyond what they read and swallow wholesale from the Daily Mail and listening to the recent government rhetoric which stooped to the same tactics as that the Tories they so vehemently criticised while in opposition.

Until I started in my job I really believed benefits were a pittance, hard to get, and that only those truly in need were eligible.

It’s my real life (aka NOT daily mail) experience that has showed me for every authentic or worthy claimant, there is another that are taking the piss thanks to the eligibility of some very questionable self-reported conditions, as well as frankly the neglect of their kids which has resulted in yet more diagnoses and more money.

Nobody is going to get rich off benefits as a single able bodied person with no diagnoses. But PLENTY of people live an extremely comfortable life thanks to the explosion of ASD, ADHD and ‘SEMH’ issues which oddly everyone seemed to cope ok without only 10/15 years ago.

I have seen time and time again how benefits have done nothing but enable people to avoid work and their responsibilities while making themselves increasingly unemployable.

And most hard working people are sick of the emotional blackmail of ‘if you don’t give me my benefits I’ll neglect my kids/rob a shop/unalive myself’. I’m pleased it seems we are no longer being held to ransom and Labour are willing to make the necessary changes.

Versus the people not doing a fab job as they work all hours? It takes the piss, sorry. It is not selfish to be happy to help others but not to the extent they have a better quality of life than you do.

You’ve misunderstood me completely. What I meant was why would carers who are currently caring hand their (mostly) kids over to the state? They wouldn’t. Nobody is saving the state money by caring for their own kids. We would only save the state money if we hadn’t had kids to start with. It’s such an odd mindset. There needs to be more respite however.

They are saving the state money. If my Aunt didn't do the care her adult DD needs, the state would have to pay for carers. Either multiple times a day/live in, or fund a care home.

So, how do you get this paid rent and money please?
Currently working my socks off at a full time demanding job, with a family member (recently recognised as disabled, but receiving a rather low monetary help) mostly bed bound, and a teen (expensive they are!). We struggle and I could do with living my life without having to work. Imagine. Having the time to cook, do the laundry, clean, take my family out in the wheelchair, leisurely go shopping.

But, it just does not happen! UC does not just hand in money like sweets to anyone who asks for it.
Surely there are a few people abusing the system, but how comes you all know so many and I have never even found one?
This is starting to get to me, to be honest. It is like a myth that some people want to spread around.

The state could just not do anything at all... And I think that's the way things are going because people just aren't getting the message any other way, the sense of entitlement runs so deep.

Tell me you know nothing about caring for a disabled person without telling me…………..

Bit surely no one (unless they're a complete cunt) actually thinks the state should do nothing?

So, let's say we listen to you and we have no children, none.
Good, we save a tonne of money.
Teachers, schools, childminders, nurseries, playroom business, paedetricians... they can retrain/ repurpose. Some revenue lost here. But according to you, it should compensate.
Then we retire and there is no young people to take our roles.... Well, no problem. Sure you have a solution for that one too? Is AI and robots going to take over? Will we still get a pension? Who is going to be our doctor? Run the local supermarket? Make our clothes? Or immigrants- now good luck with that one! It is not going smoothly so far....
Because I do hope you already know that we are, indeed, having less children!

Read back through the thread and you’ll find quite a few. The problem with threads like these is that people with no experience of disability or caring like to throw their two pennorth in without having the experience or knowledge to actually contribute anything meaningful. I note that there aren’t too many threads on MN discussing whether child benefit should be limited or made harder to claim.

I want to see a ring fenced list of conditions. Down syndrome, Angelman syndrome, muscular dystrophy, people with severe congenital abnormalities (born without a limb, or eyes), severe learning difficulty, basically lifelong conditions with no realistic prospect of vast improvement, where the person should receive a generous sum which is not subject to reevaluation at any point.

But things like higher functioning Asd, adhd, sensory issues, anxiety - no. They would be entitled to jobseeker benefits alone.

I would make jobseeker benefits tapered, with them ending after 18 months. That’s plenty of time to find work, it’s in nobody’s interests for an able bodied person to sit around for years claiming and becoming increasingly ‘anxious’ about the outside world.

Thankfully this is the direction of travel at the moment.

I would scrap it, and reinvest the money into school supper clubs. Then every child is offered 3 meals a day and nobody can complain about not being able to feed their kids (while being able to afford pets and fake nails in many cases).

The children of virtually all the benefit claimants I know will not go on to do those roles. They’re already on DLA and a life of further claiming awaits most of them, sadly.

Sounds like a great plan, but you forgot to outline where these jobs are coming from?

I assume you have some sort of plan to trigger the massive economic growth needed to create jobs for every able-bodied and disabled person to fill?

It is shocking how some people just do not care.
Well, they do not care because they are not in that situation. If tomorrow anything happens to them, then they will be the noisiest around about the subject. And they think they are the cleverest more worthy people, centre of the world. Talking about entitlement....
There are so many selfish people with no principles that is, indeed, shocking.

Eh? You said nothing about childcare in the post I was responding to. You were asking why family wouldn't care for disabled relatives. Nothing about who would care for their kids. If you actually meant disabled kids and haven't just been attempting a sneaky pivot you should have said so.

Right. My cousin has one of the conditions in your first list. So she's "allowed" some money. Lucky her. That doesn't solve the issue of either her family providing care for the grand sum of £80 per week, or actual carers being paid a proper wage for doing so.

The conditions on your second list are harder and vary so much. I know some people with anxiety who work full time. I know others who can't leave the house. Getting DLA/PIP/LCWRA for anxiety is actually really difficult despite what the media tell you.

Edited to add: There's also a massive issue with lack of MH support unless you can afford it privately, which most people can't.

"Nobody is saving the state money by caring for their own kids."

Residential schools for disabled children cost a lot more than paying carers and DLA. Supported living for young adults costs far more than that person living with their parents -You would be amazed how much some provision can cost.

So 2 kids in every classroom would be disabled enough for residential care if their parents didn’t get Dla?