To think too many people are happy to live off benefits forever?

[BritishQueue]

Okay, I know this is a touchy subject here on MN, but I need to ask, AIBU to think that too many people are just choosing to stay on universal credit rather than work?

Obviously, I’m not talking about people who genuinely can’t work - disabilities, carers, etc (even though a lot of those who claim to be unfit for work are perfectly capable, and I’ve seen “carers” for people who don’t actually need any care…). But I know multiple people who are completely able-bodied and yet have no intention of ever getting a job. They say things like “it’s not worth it” or “I’d be worse off working,” and honestly, I don’t get it. I work full-time, pay tax, and yet I see people getting rent paid, extra handouts, and still managing holidays and luxuries I can’t afford. Not to mention that a lot of women think the government should subsidise their SAHM lifestyle.

I just don’t understand how it’s fair? Surely benefits should be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice? AIBU?

Yes there are people like this and there shouldn't be. No-one should be better off on benefits than working. No-one. Full stop.

This is not her mum giving her a week in Spain. Think 5 long haul holidays last year. This is essentially early inheritance.
Still in mums name so not technically doing anything wrong I guess. But no one checked and she was playing the system no doubt.
Anyway as a result of having oodles of spare time and no financial worries she has got herself a prestigious role that pays well.
So all done and no one will be any the wiser

This is why I'm happy by what Labour is doing

Try raising the bar in India or Afghanistan, most of the Middle East and anywhere in Africa. Women make up more than 51% of the world's population and do most of the work. Unless we are lucky enough to live in a Western nation we will spend most of our lives working for the men in our households and having children - in Afghanistan a labouring woman cannot even go to the maternity hospital without a male 'guardian' so even more women are dying in childbirth.
Men do not need to be 'shit' for women to be doing most of the unpaid domestics on top of their paid work. Most men would say they do their share and many women may think they do - until they do an audit.

It doesn't seem to occur to some people that the minority who are fraudulently claiming benefits and seem to be living the high life - foreign holiday, tattoos, nails and all the other tropes - may well have other sources of 'income' e.g. sponging off family members, working while claiming, etc. If they have so few scruples as to claim money they aren't entitled to, then presumably they won't have many scruples about this kind of behaviour either. I think that's what's leading some to falsely conclude that you can live the high life on benefits alone.

What on Earth does anyone in India or Afghan have to do with UK benefit claimants? In the UK, the country being discussed, women should not be doing 100% of the domestic work plus working outside of the home. Obviously no one in any other country should either! But there’s no excuses in the UK where we are free to build marriages and relationships that are equitable.

A Labour government that sacrifices the poorest and most vulnerable and doesn’t stand up against the 1% is not left wing at all, to claim anyone who is more left wing than Kier Starmer is a far left extremist is frankly fucking stupid.

It is only inheritance when someone has died. Cash gifts are allowed if you are o UC as long as they don't push your capital over £6k, in which case you have to declare the amount over £6k and your benefits will adjust accordingly.
Having holidays paid for is nothing to do with UC. The only thing they would have to declare is if they are out of the country for more than a month. It seems like you want to think this person has done something wrong. They haven't.

It's jealousy. The subject gets fancy holidays courtesy of mum and has completed enough training to secure a well-paying job (assumedly making her a net contributor). There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Although it seems most people on this thread would have preferred she got a low-paying job instead of spending time studying, which makes no sense to me. She would likely have gotten trapped in that low-paying job and had a life on top-up benefits.

And yes, you can train and work at the same time, but it's a lot harder to study when you're exhausted from your 12-hour shift on your feet in retail, hospitality or care, plus many of the courses and certifications are unaffordable to people on low incomes.

As I said earlier, I think the transition from benefits to work can be a worrying one - if you start a job, you may have a month to wait for your first pay, and that can be hard to manage if you don't have savings (and how many people on benefits have a nice savings cushion built up?). And if the job suddenly gives you fewer hours (easily done on a zero hours contract), or if you lose the job, the process for claiming a top up, or new benefits can take a long time - and again, how many people have a savings cushion to cope with this?

I can understand why people find this prospect a really worrying one.

Agreed

Op you are correct but here on MN you will be shouted down about it simply not being true and all the “ poor benefits claimants” because MN is not representative of the real world! I know lots of people claiming benefits ( especially disability ones) and NOT ONE OF THEM IS 100% Genuine! These are people i know well who openly admit they exaggerate illnesses and their income ( self employment) to claim the maximum in benefits. However here on MN you will be told that its simply not true and its impossible to claim without tons of real evidence which is a completely false statement to make!

No one has said that 100% of claimants are 100% legit. Fraud happens, but it is such a tiny amount that it is negligible. Stamping out all fraud won't make a jot of difference to the overall bill.

The government's own stats show that more money is spent trying to detect fraud than is actually lost to fraud. And more again is lost through DWP error.

I don't remember anyone having tried to assert that benefit fraud levels are zero. Sadly that's never going to be the case. People who do the things you describe (assuming they really are fraudulently claiming for disabilities, which I'm taking with a pinch of salt as it's virtually impossible to get anything for genuine disability) are the root of the problem as they're the reason why so many people are tarring all claimants with the same brush.

What some of us have an issue with is all the knee-jerk assumptions that anyone who appears to be claiming fraudulently is in fact doing so.

How do the government know how much is lost to fraud?

I am disabled and I claim disability legitimately. Someone with the same condition as me who is less affected with more support than me did tell me that they exaggerated to get benefits because that was the only way that they could. They thought I would agree with them. I understood that have difficulties but if they were eligible they wouldn’t have had to do that. found the whole thing offensive it has been bothering me since they told me, people who do that effect everyone because now we will all be under suspicion and it is probably a major reason that benefits are being cut for everyone

Money is earnt. If someone are receiving money that they haven't earnt, someone else is having money they have earnt taken from them to pay for that. People on benefits need to recognise that. It's not "the government's money". People are earning it and then going without.

Definitely

Taxes need to be lowered across the board, and the government needs to be prepared to stand up and say to people, "NO. That is YOUR responsibility. If YOU want it, YOU pay for it."

Why?
Do you want people to feel ashamed?

Sorry, but it is the government's money. It was never in your bank account to start with. Someone on benefits is not pulling money from your bank account and spending it for you.

My DIL is a Heath Visitor in a deprived area. The issue as to why it seems that they are managing on benefits is because of all the cash in hand jobs they do. They often tell her it’s to supplement their benefits!

We all know people who do cash in hand roles. To pretend that we don’t is fooling ourselves

You can swear well done

The government’s money doesn’t come out of thin air, it is raised by taxation

To a degree I think anecdotal experience can make up evidence. Perhaps, @BritishQueue you should report it as fraud? I assume you've got more to go on than idle, mean-spirited tittle tattle though as wasting police time is a crime too.

Which is also raised via VAT, which people on benefits still pay when they buy things or pay for services. Many people on benefits work and also pay tax.
I just hate the whole "you should be grateful to tax payers" thing. I am grateful for the safety net that exists. A society is judged by how it treats its most vulnerable.