To think too many people are happy to live off benefits forever?

[BritishQueue]

Okay, I know this is a touchy subject here on MN, but I need to ask, AIBU to think that too many people are just choosing to stay on universal credit rather than work?

Obviously, I’m not talking about people who genuinely can’t work - disabilities, carers, etc (even though a lot of those who claim to be unfit for work are perfectly capable, and I’ve seen “carers” for people who don’t actually need any care…). But I know multiple people who are completely able-bodied and yet have no intention of ever getting a job. They say things like “it’s not worth it” or “I’d be worse off working,” and honestly, I don’t get it. I work full-time, pay tax, and yet I see people getting rent paid, extra handouts, and still managing holidays and luxuries I can’t afford. Not to mention that a lot of women think the government should subsidise their SAHM lifestyle.

I just don’t understand how it’s fair? Surely benefits should be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice? AIBU?

How long is forever anyway.

You might die tomorrow @BritishQueue and then you won't have to worry about it.

A benefit forever claimant might die tomorrow and then that'll one less for you to stress over.

Forever is relative.

What if you could put a timeline on it and make sure there's some pretty hefty, probing, degrading reviews to be done of forever - every 3 or 4 years say.

D'oh.

This is hilarious! 😆 I have seen with my very own eyes multiple people who have never ever worked a day In their lives since school (we are now in our 30’s) and live comfortably, housing association houses, rent fully paid, caravan in the driveway and away most weekends in it plus the obligatory fortnight in Tenerife every summer etc they all have multiple kids and the dad(s) don’t live with them on paper but of course absolutely do.
The optimum route seems to be…get pregnant whilst living with your mum in her HA house, then claim overcrowding and that your mum is making you homeless by throwing you out, get your own HA house, claim you live there alone with the kids (have a few, 3/4 seems to be the most popular amount) but of course the youngest child’s dad lives with you, he works so you have all rent paid and no council tax to pay and his wages are pocket money. After you’ve lived there long enough buy it under the right to buy scheme for about £20-£30k then pay that off as by now your kids are teenagers ready for their own HA homes! Once you reach pension age sell the house, buy a brand new caravan and car etc then claim you are penniless and elderly and need a ground floor bungalow/ sheltered type flat and get that given to you by the HA whilst enjoying your new purchases and STILL comfortable life whilst once again the DWP pays your bills. I’ve seen this first hand (a distant family member on my DHs side!) and variations on this are more common than not on the gigantic council estate she lives on.
The not so optimum route if you can’t stay with a child’s dad is to just stay in the HA house for ever and not work whilst the kids are young enough to get away with it then once the pressure mounts from DWP to work, either claim you’re unable to work (because of mental health seems common) or only able to work the minimum hours you can get away with (currently 16 I believe) and benefits top you up. My SILs neighbour and friend has always said she is crazy for working because she has more disposable income for takeaways and night outs than her and she hasn’t worked ever, SIL had to say no to some nights out etc because she couldn’t afford it and friend found it hilarious.
I absolutely guarantee people who don’t believe this to be true have never spent time on any big council estate, at least not looking like they could be ‘from the social’ or ‘the housing’ 😂

@SeenYourArse What's hilarious is your lack of evidence, anecdotes about estates and crass stereotypes.

If you think being on Benefits is such a hoot why don't you give up your job and live in them. No one on the Dole is forcing you to work are they. Although I do get if no one worked there'd be no Dole before any one comes out with that old chestnut

One thing I WILL add is it seems to me like those who have never worked seem to receive more in benefits (perhaps they just know the system better?) and that those working and being topped up seem much less comfortable

Sorry what evidence exactly do you expect me to post on here? 🤔 the distant relatives street address? Or name? Tell me you’ve never spent time amongst these people without saying it 😂 they aren’t stereotypes they are real people living in the NW of England in a small town where the huge estate is as big as the entire rest of the town it’s famous in our county!

'a lot of women think the government should subsidise their SAHM lifestyle'. Actually, the boot is on the other foot with this one. Women who stay at home with their DC are contributing heftily to GDP and the government is getting childcare/support for workers/care of the elderly/all domestic chores that are required to service the work force and keep it working, etc., for free. The government should not be subsidising women who in the majority take on these caring roles - and women who go out to work are included here as well as mothers who want to raise their own children - they should be a) paying them the market rate for the hours put in and b) making sure their input to the economy is included in GDP. Also men should be putting in all the extra hours women do in the home on top of their jobs - just as women are expected to do.

@ruethewhirl , always the tactic of those without an argument to attack personally. How sad for you.

You haven’t though. You are reading the daily mail

So you'll have reported all these "scroungers" to the DWP's National Benefit Fraud Hotline then?

Sorry what evidence exactly do you expect me to post on here

Exactly. You don't have any. We all know someone who does something, that's not the basis of an argument.

Women who work ARE raising their own children. Paying for children is a huge part of the responsibility of being a parent. It shocks me that so many women clearly believe their own husbands aren't raising their children because they go to work to support them. Does your husband know you think this way? That you have contempt for him?

OP why do you think you know so many scumbags? Very strange to be surrounded by these people.

But is that not true? Someone does have to pay for it....

Absolutely but let's also not forget many people on benefits have also paid into the system

Totally. I've received jobseeker in the past. I guess you just want it to be short term for most people where it is possible for them to work.

My brothers and sister in laws have never had a job. I’ve already said I think there’s societal issues that lead people to where they are so I try not to judge so I’m not some daily mail reader. But just because you don’t know people doesn’t mean it’s not real. All of their friends are in similar circumstances so I know and know of a fair few people who have never and will never get jobs because they have maximised their income in some fraudulent ways. But I can’t really blame them, I think they’re playing with fire and if they get caught I’d hate to think about what would happen to my nieces and nephews but their options are limited when they’re 30/40s with no job experience and no qualifications.

These discussions all come down to the same thing, which will be familiar to anyone who has studied decision theory.

OP mentions that she doesn't count "people who genuinely can’t work" as "scroungers" (a word that appeared in one of her later posts). But how do you determine who "genuinely can't work"? Ultimately that is going to involve an evaluation and a decision by a person, and that is going to be a fallible process when you get into borderline cases, because there is not always a bright-line distinction to be drawn.

What is more costly, erring on the side of the claimant or the taxpayer? What if you "tighten up" and there are 10, 100, 1000 more suicides? (And of course, you can't really know that the cause of suicide was the benefits being stopped; that's another can of worms.) Or, conversely, if you make benefits easier to claim and suddenly a lot of people can't be arsed to work any more? I don't know if either of those situations really happens, but I do know that the underlying problem — i.e., that it's a trade-off between "too easy to claim" and "some people will fall through the cracks" — is always going to be there, because it's inherent to every social intervention.

Nobody can answer these questions with 100% certainty, which is why we have politics. But in any system there will always be people who flagrantly abuse it, and people who genuinely need it, and a whole spectrum in between those two ends. Pretty much the same, with some details changed, goes for tax avoidance and catching speeding motorists. Accepting that the system can't be perfect is necessary before we buckle down to the hard problem of making it better.

SeenYourArse
Yep! Dbil from a family like this. When he and dsis bought a house, his mum was genuinely baffled and thought he was stupid and told him his sister was getting one just like it free off the council.

He's one of 5 and every sibling he has is on disability benefits, all for conditions which are not diagnosable by medical tests, only those which are based on self reported symptoms. His sisters work very part time with spells of unemployment, have 3-4 kids each and live off a mix of pip & UC, dla claimed for the kids, housing benefit which pays their council home rent. Two of his sisters claim they are single, their partners claim they live at home with their own parents but are not!

You are not wrong OP. Everyone knows people who are milking the system, spending entire lives on benefits. People having multiple kids, never working a day in their lives, claiming way more than those in work.

But this is MN, here people fall over themselves to prove that there is no such think as people taking the Mickey. Probably because they are on the take themselves.

The benefits system is an absolute joke, that’s why nearly 10 million people of working age are not working, claiming some kind of benefit. 3 million are on disability benefits, over 1000 people are day more going on disability benefits. It’s an absolute like that benefits are difficult to get. We didn’t end up with millions fleecing those who are paying into system, if it was that hard to get benefits.

This is why the ever dwindling number of net contibutors is turning against the welfare system. Soon the millions taking from the system will find there is no enough people left to pay. Thats when they’ll find it hard to get benefits.

Did you come up with the daily mail bit all by yourself? How original. Well done.

If I go full time I would earn £2100 a month, if I work 0.5 then I earn £1100 and get a £800 UC top up.

Mixed with free school meals, free prescriptions, half price school trips, 85% off childcare.

🤷🏼‍♀️

What do you mean op when you ask "what do you mean not by choice?"

Surely that's not a statement that's difficult to comprehend?

And 'it always seems to be single mothers' - aren't you a peach.

@Annajones101 That’s why nearly 10 million people of working age are not working, claiming some kind of benefit

And here's the AI-generated breakdown.

Reasons for Economic Inactivity:

Long-Term Sickness: A significant portion of the economically inactive population is unable to work due to long-term sickness.

Caring Responsibilities: Caring responsibilities, particularly childcare, are also a factor.

Ill Health: Ill health, including mental health issues, is a major reason for economic inactivity.

Disability: A substantial number of people of working age report being disabled.

Retirement: Some people are retired and no longer in the workforce.

Student: Some people are students and not working.

Other factors: Other factors include stay-at-home parents.

And all these people are claiming a benefit? Which benefits you say they're all getting do you think they shouldn't have?

Op is right people do know how to play the system, includes people in my family too, and its wrong. Never worked a day. Maybe I'm just jealous..

If you are witnessing someone being financially comfortable on benefits then they have significant disabilities and a damned hard life. Benefits don't go very far. Get out your ivory tower