Nanny leaving

[Countessofgranthamm]

Nanny leaving who has been with us 3 and a half years. Is it unreasonable to just give gift and a card or is it customary to give money too? We are moving overseas for DP work so I suppose we are technically the ones leaving! She is the first nanny we have had to unsure of the customs?

Why did you say your nanny is leaving?

Sounds like you better pay her and hope she doesn't report you 😬

She won’t be genuinely self employed as she has an obligation to perform the work personally. That precludes self employment.

OP I agree with the general tone that Nannies are usually employees. However if you pay her redundancy now which I think is the right thing. She may also look for back paid holiday pay etc

If you employ a nanny, you have to pay all that. If you can't afford it, find alternative childcare

Exactly.

When I babysat as a teenager and in my early 20s, the family would call me, see if I was free and if I was I'd take the job for the evening. If I wasn't free no great shakes - they could find someone else. Sometimes they called someone instead of me.

Obviously, if I'd repeatedly said no they might have taken my number off the list, but there was no obligation for either party to give the other work.

Contrast with my nanny. She can take time off for annual leave or if she's sick, or emergencies but otherwise I expect her to come to my house on the days she's contracted for. If she told me that she wasn't going to come in one day "just because" she'd be in breach of her contract. Similarly, I direct how many kids she looks after during the time I pay her for - unlike a childminder she can't take other kids just because she wants to.

Conversely, if my son has a playdate I can't just say "don't come in today and I won't pay you."

Again, just to be clear, as I work in compliance for the tax authority:

Whilst we would consider the situation in every case based on it’s own specific circumstances, I cannot fathom a way a person providing a personal service for one family for 3.5 years could be legitimately self-employed.

The OP hasn’t come back to answer questions but unless it transpires that this is really a babysitter with multiple clients (so isn’t a nanny at all), they have an employee.

This would be an open and shut case.

The fact that lots of people pay staff as self-employed doesn't make it either lawful or morally acceptable.

A genuinely self-employed nanny is vanishingly rare.

You did miss the point and are still missing it.

You can call the person doing the childcare anything you want. The Ofsted registration is irrelevant. If the person is working only for 1 family in their home they are an employee. Oh and nannies can be Ofsted registered.

Agree as I posted above I was not aware actually having only used ad hoc nanny services myself. I am now fully up to date on ir35 and nanny employment thanks to MN :))

Nanny being made redundant not Nanny leaving. Your title is massively misleading, I'm guessing from the way you've spoken you wrote it that way because want to be told you don't owe her anything so you can feel good about yourself while you're acting in an immoral way towards her. She deserves redundancy pay and all those other things you should have been covering as an employer, do the right thing, pay her redundancy and provide a good reference, don't screw her over because you don't need her anymore.

Thank you. Another poster thinks Ofsted confers some magical status to avoid paying PAYE and employer's NI in all circumstances.

Mumsnet is honestly like a different universe sometimes.

Gosh you're very harsh. I assume you've been happy with her. Pay her properly.

A lot of recent HMRC wins in cases where employement vs self employment was the issue were due to the rule of substitution SO if this Nanny was not able to send a substitute in her place then its likely she was employed or at least under IR35.

How does this work with nannies - as they will surely be on a contract as children go to school and nannies are often then not needed, or their hours change etc

Otherwise there would be many nannies constantly getting redundancy when children reach school age?

A mother sounds a bit birth certificatey about her children?

Fuck me, heard it all now.

You can have an employment contract for a fixed time.

It’s not uncommon for employers in lots of sectors to employ people in that manner. I myself was once employed for 18 months. I had deductions taken from my pay, received a payslip and had pension deductions taken because I was an employee but at the end of the 18 months there was no obligation to keep me or pay me redundancy because a temporary employment contract had ended.

They are not acting as an employer,they are an employer

There are a lot of nannies who are made redundant when children reach school age. Some families pay them properly, others don't - but should.

A nanny and his/her employer can mutually agree a change of hours, just as any other person can with their employer if both parties are willing.

Misleading title

The reason there was no obligation to pay you redundancy wad that you'd been employed for under two years. There is still an obligation to pay for over two years even if the contract is fixed term.

Yes , we pay out of taxed income. There are no compensating set asides. They also don't get the small business rate of increased NI.

It applies to all domestic employees, so house keepers, cooks as well. It's not fair but it is what it is.

And I left after six months anyway for something permanent, but that makes sense.

If you can't afford to cover the pay and associated things necessary to legally employ a nanny you don't break the law, you use a different form of childcare. If you can't afford the service don't get it. It's really not rocket science and no one needs to lobby MPs for something completely ridiculous. What other laws do you think people should break because they can't afford them? Pay less than minimum wage, is that ok? Employing someone who can't legally work in the country? Not paying employee pensions? They're on a level with what OP and her husband have done. I'm sure you wouldn't be saying the same if you employer short changed you in some way out of what you'd legally earnt.

Well, yes. Situations change.