To think beige kids dinners are fine?

[reachermarry]

Scrolling FB today and seen a video come up from a mum of 2 and what she gave her kids for good during the day.

cereal for breakfast with option of fruit/veg

picky bits for lunch, on this occasion included a sandwich, Dairylea dunkers, a pack of fridge raiders, banana, an angel cake slice.

for dinner the child had, fish fingers, chips, peas.

for pudding was given a fromage frais and a mini Maryland bag of cookies.

Now I am not sure how old the child was as there was no mention, but the comments were horrendous, comments were saying how she should be done for neglect because of the ultra processed food she’s feeding her kid.

What’s your views on it?

I’ll start, I see nothing wrong with this diet, maybe breakfast could be a little more filling, perhaps an option of something else on the side, but that’s just my child, I know some kids don’t like big brekkies.

I can’t be the only one especially growing up in the lower/working class families, that had a diet consisting of quick save chips, and pizza/sausages surely?

When your child will eat nothing you offer, you would rather feed them Nutella sandwiches than see them end up in hospital on a drip.

I have autism myself and have real issues with food and texture - not ARFID levels, but issues nonetheless. My parents raised me on a super healthy diet - no junk, no fizzy drinks, no nuggets, no fish fingers, no nutella - I still refused a lot of the healthy foods I was offered because they made me gag, or vomit. I would rather have gone to bed hungry than eat a banana, or spinach, or parsnips.

Re fish fingers

Most people should eat more fish. It's one of those few foods where actually I'd argue that eating a processed fish is better than eating no fish at all due to what fish has in it that other

Re Nutella.

We had a period where DS would eat nothing for breakfast when we were away from home. Nutella breakfast bars were a life saver.

He doesn't still eat them on a regular basis. I haven't bought any in years.

so your parents managed to find food that you would eat despite the difficulty? Yet that’s also not possible ? Autistic children didn’t die of starvation in the ‘70s , they didn’t end up on a drip in hospital

at some point that child got a taste for the Nutella sandwich and if they had never experienced it then they would be eating something else

we have to be so careful and modern crap food is so addictive and small brains are more sensitive

your arguments make me think that a lot of food should be completely banned because it’s too hard for people to avoid

I see there’s a lot of opinions around this, personally I just didn’t think it warranted the abuse as to be honest we don’t know what they eat every single day. I was mainly trying to ask if this is terrible for a single one off days worth of food.

I think mainly I was curious because my daughter struggled with eating for 1.5 years, ( constipation made her scared of eating whole other story also autism investigations ) during which time would only eat yoghurts, apples and scotch eggs for a good 3 weeks I remember. At which point I went to my GP and burst out crying because I thought she would get malnourished.

Luckily these days we’re much better, I still get the occasional “ I don’t like carrots “ but unlucky for her she’s at an age where she doesn’t get away with it and she eats what we eat, I won’t make seperate meals and unless there’s an allergy there’s no excuse to not eat something purely because it grew on the ground.

DH is a bodybuilder and I’m very loving of vegetables. So you can imagine the meals we will have each night, I won’t post meal plans.

HOWEVER on a weekend, I am less strict and think no wrong of buying a pizza for dinner to watch a movie with, although on that same note, I do make homemade sourdough pizzas too once a month.

Or as I say, grabbing a dairylea for a snack if she’s hungry. I wouldn’t feel guilt for making a cheese/egg sandwich for a quick lunch.

Chocolate and sweets I’m not strict on and she’s aloud a chocolate bar/biscuits if she wants at the end of dinner as long as she has ate a minimum amount of food.

This is purely I grew up in a household where chocolate wasn’t aloud at any time or sweets, and it ended up me having a very sweet tooth in my young adult years, and then struggling with binge eating. My mother had 5 kids and two of them are exactly the same. And still are.

To be honest as long as dinner has been eaten and teeth are brushed day and night, I don’t care for restricting chocolate or sweet.

And in turn she’ll often choose a Greek yoghurt or an orange. Aside from those damn ice lollies, which she’d happily eat a box of each time. ( she does not )

breakfast is a weird one, some days it’ll be cereal before school, sometimes she’ll ask for jam on toast, some days scrambled eggs, it varies.

I was just purely curious.

so your parents managed to find food that you would eat despite the difficulty? Yet that’s also not possible ? Autistic children didn’t die of starvation in the ‘70s , they didn’t end up on a drip in hospital

No - they thought they'd found food I'd eat. In reality, most of my lunchbox ended up in the bin, or I would swap my food with my friends to find something that I could actually tolerate. To this day, I can't eat food out of lunchboxes and the smell of bashed up fruit still makes me gag. Even thinking about it makes me feel a bit sick.

I really wish people would stop acting as though food issues and ARFID are some kind of weird modern phenomenon. They've always existed, it's just we didn't understand them. Children will have been force-fed. Made to sit at the table and eat their food cold, or get served their leftovers for breakfast. Or they'd have just gone hungry and filled up on bread, or lots of water.

at some point that child got a taste for the Nutella sandwich and if they had never experienced it then they would be eating something else

You seem very arrogant for someone who has never had direct experience of food issues and autism. If my parents had only presented me foods I didn't like, I would just not have eaten anything at all.

Is there a link with junk food and premature menses? Genuine question.

I’m a social worker. Believe me this is more than ok. People overreact so much about this stuff! It’s just food. As long as it’s good enough. Most kids have good and bad days. But some kids will literally eat nothing but nuggets (maybe due to arfid or autism) and are perfectly fine. I think people really need to calm down and get some perspective!!!

I have a friend (American, relevant to the story) who was sent to summer camp for 8 weeks and hated the food. She starved herself the entire summer and lost 16 pounds. She was 11, so that was a lot. When she got home, she was so ill she had to spend the remainder of her summer holiday in bed being fed and resting. Her parents never made her do a long stay like that again. That was in the 1980s. It did happen, and I suspect more parents quietly catered to picky children and never told anyone as it wasn't so acceptable back then.

And yes, in my case we did have a small jar of Nutella in the house before DS discovered it. With my older children this was no problem. It was an occasional treat. You can't predict which things are going to be an issue. I've also known parents who didn't ordinarily serve things like chicken nuggets who only tried them after a child rejected other foods, or if they had a meltdown when homemade wasn't always the same, or because they couldn't bear to make it from scratch constantly.

Could it be better? I think we’ all agree it could be but I’ll save my outrage for those kids that aren’t being fed and try and do something about that rather than judge someone who is serving up three meals for their kids.

And yes, in my case we did have a small jar of Nutella in the house before DS discovered it. With my older children this was no problem. It was an occasional treat. You can't predict which things are going to be an issue.

Well, exactly.

Most diets contain something unhealthy at some point - an ice-cream in summer at the park, some chips at the beach, chocolate at a party. For most people, this wouldn't be an issue - but children with ARFID will latch on to those "safe" foods.

My issue with homemade food, fruit and vegetables is that it never tastes the same two meals in a row. Some bananas are firm, some are squishy. Some fruit is sweet, some is sharp. One week a homemade curry might be fine, the next it could be too spicy or dry.

Packaged foods are safe. I know that all bags of Walkers ready salted crisps will taste the same, no matter where I get them from, so eating them doesn't make me worry that I'll gag, or vomit, or feel sick.

Like I say , at work I see a number of autistic young people whose diets are restricted but with actual food.

So, as a social worker you think that kids who eat only highly processed chicken nuggets are perfectly fine ?

And that's the thing - every autistic person is different and will have different ideas of what they find tolerable and when.

For me, there are certain foods I can eat at home but would never touch in a restaurant because I don't what brand they'll use or whether they'll add a different spice or seasoning that I might not like.

If I'm going out for the day and won't have access to a shop, I will only bring my safe foods that I know I can happily eat at room temperature, for example, so my diet looks much more limited than it actually is.

I actually have quite a few safe, healthy foods but only certain brands, and I can only eat them if they're prepared in a certain way.

Not from the UK so not sure what picky bits are (assuming stuff you eat with your hands?) and I also always thought that beige food was freezer-based carbs and breaded meats/fish.

The amount of sugar in that diet is a bit alarming. Kids don't need a dessert at every meal. I'd imagine this might be OK if you had like a one-off picnic lunch etc but there's so many easy swaps that could have made it healthier (and cheaper) like opting for a boiled egg, or just chopping up some cucumber, cherry tomatoes or red peppers, and forgoing the packet of biscuits

Fish fingers I do approve of, once a week as they are a firm dc favourite here too.

This sounds very different from a diet that I have commented on . Anyone (neurodiverse or not ) should not live on one or two highly processed non foods.Or even 3 or four highly processed non foods.

There are lots of things people shouldn't do.

But food is a really difficult one because you can't just not eat anything. You need to eat in order to survive. So if the only thing your child will tolerate is Nutella sandwiches, or oven chips, or nuggets, then that's what you feed them - because anything is better than your child ending up in hospital, on drip, or being tube fed because they will point-blank not tolerate anything else.

I'm very lucky in that my food aversions are not as restrictive as many people with autism. Mine is mainly around texture and emotion/overwhelm so I can manage to eat certain foods while distracting myself, or when I add certain sauces or flavours, for example. But it's still hard and my entire life is difficult because of it. I wish more than anything that I could just go out for a meal without feeling panicked or sick.

You see, I suppose as a social worker she’s seen neglect by beings of a child being physically abused, starved for fun whilst mum and dad are hooked on drugs or alcohol.
or children walking around wearing clothes that are so tight they’re cutting them. Or kids living in pure squalor and filth.

So yes Dideon, as a social worker I’m sure a child that is perfectly happy, weight where it should be and education hitting targets, having chicken nuggets for dinner isn’t a big fucking problem.

I absolutely do - yes. And there is evidence to suggest this.
In fact in some cases its preferable and I would advise it. For example, I had a case with a child who was autistic, with Arfid, and would get deeply deeply distressed around food. Severe sensory issues. Parents were trying to force-feed food which was not appropriate at all. The kindest thing to do in this instance, is make a list of the things the child would eat (in this case, cheese doritos, chicken nuggets, plain rice, plain pasta, butter). And make it work! With help of nutritionist get multi-vits in. But you clearly dont understand ARFID. Children and adults with it need food to be the same every time. And they simply will starve themselves because eating anything outside their comfort foods is traumatic for them. The food pyramid is nonsense for a start. Not every body has to eat fruit and veg, and emotional wellbeing absolutely matters. Force feeding a child with ARFID something that feels awful in their mouth and makes them want to puke is way more abusive than feeding them nuggets and multi-vits.

The food issue actually really annoys me because poor parents these days are told a diet like the one listed is 'terrible' when quite honestly for many of the kids I work with it would be a dream diet. My own child has autism and if they ate that variety I would have been thrilled.
People need to calm down. There is way more harm done by obsessing over food and forcing a so-called 'healthy diet' (which no nutritionists can even agree on what that looks like) than actually being more chill and giving the child what they will actually eat.

SOrry that was a bit of rant, but this subject gets a bit waring in my job as Im sure you can imagine.

I see her eating baked oats for breakfast, a quick lunch and a homemade evening meal

the typical food you listed is for her older child who obviously has ARFID

As you don’t see anything wrong with the original eating plan you presented to us in your first post, I don’t think we are going to see eye to eye on this. I am from a very working class background but we had vegetables about 5 night a week. Findus crispy pancakes had just been introduced and we had them now and again as a treat. I was on free school meals so there were no pack lunches only school dinners again with veg again. We didn’t have choices and had to eat our tea but that’s not something that I’m advocating. I suppose I just find it staggering what people think an acceptable diet. Highly processed food not only doesn’t give you any benefits it’s actually bad for you.

My DC ate all of those fairly often when young and very fussy. But not all on same day.
It's not hard to add carrot sticks or cherry tomatoes and cucumber chunks to that lunch and ditch the dairylea. Or switch the fridge raiders out for freshly cooked chicken which isn't pumped full of water and preservatives.
And not hard to add another couple of veg to the dinner: boiled carrots, broccoli or cauli florets, sweetcorn, green beans.

If you think food today is less processed today than the 70s you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Oh I don't use YouTube but now feel I need to!

You are showing an incredible lack of understanding of autism and ARFID. For some children they can only cope with the exact same brand and shape of pasta every time (Covid was fun for some parents when food was scarce).

I'm fortunate that my autistic child who has sensory issues surrounding food always loved fruit and vegetables so that's something. But for years she barely touched protein and not because I didn't try. She'd also only eat certain carbs (white pasta, white rice, white bread, roast potatoes). It was exhausting! We are lucky that she will now eat some meat and can sometimes cope with sauce on certain things. She also prefers whole grains. But still, her diet is restrictive.

When we did weaning it was as mostly baby led and consisted of all sorts of home made delights. Now the idea that she ever ate spaghetti bolognese almost makes her vomit!

She’s on Instagram too but the child has ARFID from what I know/she has talked about
She’s giving him stuff he will eat and talks about him trying new things like he will eat dried mango now)

Her last video of her meals was baked homemade oats, a chilli chicken wrap and a homemade evening meal

I am not her by the way but it’s not like she’s feeding him fridge raiders for fun, he won’t eat butter, sauces, the middle parts of cucumber, any changes to brands, no cereal unless it’s dry. He’s got restricted eating