to wonder why Lent fasting has become so diluted?

[Wonderingwhyyy]

I was talking to a Christian who told me she fasts the traditional way in Lent. No food or water from sunrise to sunset. She was the first I had met who actually abstains from food and drink for a significant period of time.

Other Christians I know choose to give up one food e.g. chocolate, wine, tea, coffee. One Christian told me she gave up Facebook for Lent.

The Christian who said she fasted the traditional way told me she gained many benefits such as spiritual closeness to God, self discipline, greater self control.

It did make sense. Giving up Facebook doesn't seem likely to bring many benefits although may it did for that one person.

I wonder why it became diluted and whether Christianity has lost its followers by allowing most things it did not used to.

My mother went to mass every day. She fasted on Ash Wednesday Good Friday, never any other day of Lent. No meat on Fridays. That’s Canon Law, and it applies to those 14 and above in good health.

People who observe Lent fasting "properly" also follow the dogma too, as it's required by their Church. Same with Muslims and Ramadan. You can't be religious and pick and choose, hence why half assed believers are more scrutinized than non believers

Giving up alcohol, chocolate or whatever doesn't sound like fasting.

Not really! I made pancakes with my Cubs but not particularly bothered to make them at home. Easter eggs are overpriced for the chocolate you actually get so I’d rather buy a decent bar, but I can do that at any time of the year.

If you’d been through what I’ve been through in my life, I’ve had enough ‘discomfort’ already. I’m certainly not going to volunteer for any more on an annual basis.

“Traditional” Christianity in the UK is Catholicism and Catholics do not “fast” as you describe. Lent is a period of abstinence and reflection rather than fasting which you seem to be promoting for its “health benefits”. Traditionally food would be simpler in the 40 days before Easter and there are no feast days and people avoid meat and sweat/rich food. Catholics do not eat meat on Fridays and they do not eat in the hour(s) before taking communion. Practicing Catholics often “give up” something that they do for pleasure regularly to bring the fact it is lent to the fore in their thinking throughout lent. It serves as a reminder and so it is often a favourite food or activity. If you were an avid facebooker then I could see refraining from that activity many times a day would be helpful for focus.

Quite a good negative-nostalgia article on Lent in the just pre-Vatican 2 era in Cork. https://www.echolive.ie/nostalgia/arid-40229126.html

Sadly, no-one seems to have a definitive recipe or a photo of a 'Connie dodger' (very large biscuits a bakery started producing after Bishop Cornelius Lucey said that people who suffered from heartburn could have ONE biscuit with their tea).

It's the knitting thing that made me most cross!

A little more about Connie dodgers and modern Lent in this one

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40127585.html

I’m still waiting for @Wonderingwhyyy to confirm her own faith, and I’d also like to know what she thought about Lent prior to this one friend sharing her own personal take on Lent.

Because it sounds variously like she’s ticking Christian’s off for not doing religion properly, and also like she’s some kind of expert on Lent, despite appearing not to know anything about this Lenten fasting up until this time last week.

I'm not reading her that way. Her query seemed like genuine curiosity, which is a valid, even important thing. I was particularly interested in the replies from Eastern Orthodox Christians whose practice is different from the one I grew up with, and I always appreciate opening the consideration of Christian tradition beyond Europe.

People with an interest in history ask that when/why question about changes all the time.

I once met some Greek Orthodox who went vegan and only drank water for Lent. I quite liked that. I'm afraid I think going without water is just stupid.

Why is going without water stupid?

It has numerous health benefits.

https://www.bcm.edu/news/dawn-to-dusk-dry-fasting-leads-to-health-benefits-in-the-study-of-immune-cells

@Wonderingwhyyy I’m intrigued, why do you keep focusing on “the health benefits” of fasting?

No, it wasn't. It was always just giving something up for Lent. Lots of references to Jesus' 40 days and nights in the desert, but this is the first time I've heard of fasting.

This was in the 80s, for reference.

It's a shame your friend couldn't keep away from Facebook! I do think that's a good one for our SM saturated times. Very telling that she couldn't do it!

That is interesting that it was referred to as giving something up rather than fasting. Thank you @MightAsWellBeGretel

It was never called fasting - because Lenten fasting isn’t a thing in western Christianity.

Displaying your lack of knowledge there, OP.

Traditinaly, people gave up meat and foul for lent.
Fish was allowed.

Displaying your lack of knowledge there, OP.

Right back atcha @Ddakji , Catholics always fasted during Lent. Read the thread.

My mother never did and she was a devout Catholic. She never mentioned her mother or any other family member fasting in Lent. And this is a woman who carried on with fish on Fridays long after Vatican 2.

So I’m going to say that for at least 150 years this hasn’t been a thing in Catholicism.

My Irish in laws were strict Catholics when their children were younger but Lent meant no Alcohol / meat / sweets / chocolate (although DH said popcorn was allowed!) but there wasn’t fasting from sunrise to sunset (like in Ramadan)

@Ddakji So I’m going to say that for at least 150 years this hasn’t been a thing in Catholicism.

It was a thing until 1962. Which was not 150 years ago.

Members of my parents' generation remembering the instructions for what constituted a 'collation', and weighing bread to see how much an individual could eat, and those Corconians inventing 'Connie dodgers' were not all suffering from collective hallucinations.

This link (it's from the US, but it was the same everywhere) describes the pre-1962 fasting regulation.

https://materdeiparish.com/2017/02/fasting-abstinence-current-traditional-practices/

Prior to the 6th century, Lent was normatively observed through the practice of the Black Fast, which enjoins fasting from food and liquids, with the allowance of one vegetarian meal after sunset. This form of fasting continues in certain denominations, such as the Coptic Orthodox Church.

Wiki
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So, when you say 'traditional', you mean 'the way they did it 1500 years ago'?

I mean, quite right. Everything went completely to pot when some cleverclogs figured out how to pickle parships. Suddenly everyone had access to untold preserved vegetables, and morals went down the toilet. I blame the Vikings, coming over here with their beards and their longboats, messing up our language and not integrating with our culture. Oh yes, I remember the days when Lent was properly observed and people were bloody famished all day. That made the peasants behave better, I can tell you. They don't know they're born, Christians nowadays.

NRTFT but I was brought up Catholic & fasting every day of lent was never something we were told to do. Ash Wednesday & Good Friday are the main fasting days that most Catholics observe. Fridays during lent are also fasting days but I don't think that’s so well observed. Catholics are supoosed to abstain from meat on fasting days. We were all more focused on giving up something like chocolate/booze etc & going to Mass daily. So I doubt many Catholics are fasting in the way you describe.

I’m so happy to have seen ‘Connie dodgers’ on a Mn thread, @DeanElderberry . 😀

Can we have a side thread about ‘bone fide’ travellers and alcohol on Good Friday? When half of town went up to Kent Station, bought a ticket to somewhere, got rat-arsed in that bar on the platform, and then returned the ticket for a refund.

Langers, the lot of them.

It's only Ash Wednesday and Good Friday where you have to fast, and obviously no meat on Fridays during Lent. But people are free to fast on other days if they want to. Some people fast for non-religious reasons too.